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Topic: R3 Essendon V Carlton - Prematch Posturing (Read 83904 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: R3 Essendon V Carlton - Prematch Posturing

Reply #45 –
Quote from: ItsOurTime – on
This view was born after he closed down about 3 metres on Nick Reiwolt the other year but it was a floater kick and Nick had just tweaked his quad or hammy so he was lame. Outside this instance, I can't really recall him closing in on anyone... I'm sure a YouTube video exists if it's happened.
No my view came from watching him play VFL.

What is more for a while RiverRat had the same view and posted as much on the old forum, I remember this explicitly as RiverRat was one of two that agreed with me.

But this is the nature of watching a player like Watson, opinions of them flip as often as their form does, all aboard the roller-coaster!

IMHO, the fact these kids are still roller-coasters is a coaching issue not a player issue.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: R3 Essendon V Carlton - Prematch Posturing

Reply #46 –
Quote from: LP – on
Quote from: ItsOurTime – on
This view was born after he closed down about 3 metres on Nick Reiwolt the other year but it was a floater kick and Nick had just tweaked his quad or hammy so he was lame. Outside this instance, I can't really recall him closing in on anyone... I'm sure a YouTube video exists if it's happened.
No my view came from watching him play VFL.

What is more for a while RiverRat had the same view and posted as much on the old forum, I remember this explicitly as RiverRat was one of two that agreed with me.

But this is the nature of watching a player like Watson, opinions of them flip as often as their form does, all aboard the roller-coaster!

IMHO, the fact these kids are still roller-coasters is a coaching issue not a player issue.

This is where I believe the club leadership and football department over the past 5 to 10 years are at fault and we wont get anywhere till we fix it.

There is no reason why Jordan Russell's AFL career should be over at his size, weight and his ability when on particularly when you find out he is only 27 years of age this year.

It was what happened when he switched off that killed him.  Now, whether it be the entire coaching panel of not, but Pagan had him from teenager to age 21 and Ratten was the senior coach from then onwards.  Was the damage done when Pagan was in charge?

Was it a lack of mentoring?

The sheer fact that he played in a side that lost too many matches in his formative years which left him mentally fragile on the footy field?

His 2010 form suggests otherwise, but when it all boils down to it, injuries struck him down by the end, but confidence in himself was probably the killer of his career.  Whatever it was that hurt him, it wasnt a lack of effort.  The bloke if nothing else was an honest trier who would try twice as hard to fix up one mistake, but often that error was so bad it was unfixable.

A bad coach should at least be able to build self esteem in a playing group, whilst a good coach should be able to get output well above a players ability.

Where it gets tricky assessing any one coach, is that no matter who is the coach, there is always one or two players that just wont march to the beat of the drum being beaten, and often its different players that are the problem when that happens.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: R3 Essendon V Carlton - Prematch Posturing

Reply #47 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
There is no reason why Jordan Russell's AFL career should be over at his size, weight and his ability when on particularly when you find out he is only 27 years of age this year.

It was what happened when he switched off that killed him.  Now, whether it be the entire coaching panel of not, but Pagan had him from teenager to age 21 and Ratten was the senior coach from then onwards.  Was the damage done when Pagan was in charge?

It's alleged JR had problems that we should not speculate about, and it is a fact of AFL life that coaches can make or break careers. How many has Malthouse potentially ended, should we ask Heath Scotland?

If JR's problems had been coach related, why didn't he become a success when he moved like Scotland!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: R3 Essendon V Carlton - Prematch Posturing

Reply #48 –
Quote from: LP – on
If JR's problems had been coach related, why didn't he become a success when he moved like Scotland!

Spot on. It's unfortunate with JR but even I can now see whilst there was no doubting his talent, unfortunately there were other issues that he could not overcome.
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: R3 Essendon V Carlton - Prematch Posturing

Reply #49 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Quote from: denimundies – on
Ive changed my view on Watson over last few months. I think he'll be a good player.

I thought that too until he played a shocker vs Port....his lack of body on body work for a bloke his size is terrible, his U18 rebounding ability hid his lack of defensive ability
and its back to basics to get him up to speed and that could be a couple of years away..

Spot on EB.....exactly my thoughts. I went to the Port game thinking Watson had improved immeasurebly, left that game thinking the opposite. He was putrid.
Football is life, there is nothing else....

Re: R3 Essendon V Carlton - Prematch Posturing

Reply #50 –
Quote from: Brettie – on
Spot on EB.....exactly my thoughts. I went to the Port game thinking Watson had improved immeasurebly, left that game thinking the opposite. He was putrid.

My concern here is that this says more about the change in fitness staff and less about the player, I don't recall Watson being easily disposed of in one on one contests in previous seasons. But there may be an explanation.

For the Port game we now know the kid played on after injuring his leg. I had posted a rumor that Watson, Hendo and Kreuzer might not play Rnd 2 based on their injuries and that is exactly what happened in two out of three cases. That is enough evidence for me to cut Watson some slack.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: R3 Essendon V Carlton - Prematch Posturing

Reply #51 –
Quote from: LP – on
Quote from: Brettie – on
Spot on EB.....exactly my thoughts. I went to the Port game thinking Watson had improved immeasurebly, left that game thinking the opposite. He was putrid.

My concern here is that this says more about the change in fitness staff and less about the player, I don't recall Watson being easily disposed of in one on one contests in previous seasons. But there may be an explanation.



If you don't recall those occasions I suggest you get tested for early-onset Alzheimer's . ;D
You can fool some of the people some of the time.......................................

Re: R3 Essendon V Carlton - Prematch Posturing

Reply #52 –
Quote from: cimm1979 – on
Quote from: LP – on
Quote from: Brettie – on
Spot on EB.....exactly my thoughts. I went to the Port game thinking Watson had improved immeasurebly, left that game thinking the opposite. He was putrid.

My concern here is that this says more about the change in fitness staff and less about the player, I don't recall Watson being easily disposed of in one on one contests in previous seasons. But there may be an explanation.



If you don't recall those occasions I suggest you get tested for early-onset Alzheimer's . ;D

Pretty sure Cloke left him for dead a while back.

Now, on different matters, the game against the Bombers this week.  I believe we will get the win.

Essendon have been good thus far.  Very good.  Too good.  They are not that good.  They have unearthed these kids that are playing footy first up and putting in match winning performances.  Not a good look for the competition given they are surrounded by blokes that shouldnt be playing and with crowd numbers the way they are, the AFL would be desperate for the Blues to get their season underway.  I think we will get an armchair ride from the umps this week and are going to be a lot better than everyone thinks we will be.  We are in our 150th year, and ten years ago, the AFL gave us the biggest sanctions in history.  We sit here struggling and flailing rudderless 10 years later, and celebrating a milestone with the only thing we have to celebrate?  2 finals victories.

I have a feeling that the AFL will be desperate for us to win this week.  Ryder going down hurt, leaving them with Daniher and no one else as support ruck, a host of players getting their first few matches of AFL football, and although they gave a good effort against the Hawks, by the end of the game, I thought I saw a few of the Bombers players starting to look a bit tired and worn down.

I had this down as a loss last week, but they just came up against a team that prides itself on contesting and they beat each other up a bit.

Its going to be a close one, and I cannot guarantee the result, but we need this win so much more than the Bombers do right now.  They just need to continue being "Brave".
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: R3 Essendon V Carlton - Prematch Posturing

Reply #53 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Quote from: cimm1979 – on
Quote from: LP – on
Quote from: Brettie – on
Spot on EB.....exactly my thoughts. I went to the Port game thinking Watson had improved immeasurebly, left that game thinking the opposite. He was putrid.

My concern here is that this says more about the change in fitness staff and less about the player, I don't recall Watson being easily disposed of in one on one contests in previous seasons. But there may be an explanation.



If you don't recall those occasions I suggest you get tested for early-onset Alzheimer's . ;D

Pretty sure Cloke left him for dead a while back.

Now, on different matters, the game against the Bombers this week.  I believe we will get the win.

Essendon have been good thus far.  Very good.  Too good.  They are not that good.  They have unearthed these kids that are playing footy first up and putting in match winning performances.  Not a good look for the competition given they are surrounded by blokes that shouldnt be playing and with crowd numbers the way they are, the AFL would be desperate for the Blues to get their season underway.  I think we will get an armchair ride from the umps this week and are going to be a lot better than everyone thinks we will be.  We are in our 150th year, and ten years ago, the AFL gave us the biggest sanctions in history.  We sit here struggling and flailing rudderless 10 years later, and celebrating a milestone with the only thing we have to celebrate?  2 finals victories.

I have a feeling that the AFL will be desperate for us to win this week.  Ryder going down hurt, leaving them with Daniher and no one else as support ruck, a host of players getting their first few matches of AFL football, and although they gave a good effort against the Hawks, by the end of the game, I thought I saw a few of the Bombers players starting to look a bit tired and worn down.

I had this down as a loss last week, but they just came up against a team that prides itself on contesting and they beat each other up a bit.

Its going to be a close one, and I cannot guarantee the result, but we need this win so much more than the Bombers do right now.  They just need to continue being "Brave".

You say they have no ruckman.   We have not had one since Sauce jacobs left :P

Bombers by 70+
 

Re: R3 Essendon V Carlton - Prematch Posturing

Reply #54 –
Well I guess back to back 0-3 starts are common.
"We are a club in a hurry"

#united #reset

Re: R3 Essendon V Carlton - Prematch Posturing

Reply #55 –
@Thry

You raise an interesting point that the AFL would like the us to win - there's always a first for everything I suppose! I do think though that the AFL, whilst trying to move on from the Bummer cheating scandal, would not be too keen on them being too successful too soon! That could have a significant negative impact on gate takings as far as non-Bummer fans are concerned.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: R3 Essendon V Carlton - Prematch Posturing

Reply #56 –
Quote from: Brettie – on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Quote from: denimundies – on
Ive changed my view on Watson over last few months. I think he'll be a good player.

I thought that too until he played a shocker vs Port....his lack of body on body work for a bloke his size is terrible, his U18 rebounding ability hid his lack of defensive ability
and its back to basics to get him up to speed and that could be a couple of years away..

Spot on EB.....exactly my thoughts. I went to the Port game thinking Watson had improved immeasurebly, left that game thinking the opposite. He was putrid.


Probably the only bad game though he's played and seems like he might've had an injury. They're all putrid at some stage of their careers.

If you thought he had imrproved, and i'm sure  you wouldn't have been imagining it, then you can't just suddenly write him off after one game.

Re: R3 Essendon V Carlton - Prematch Posturing

Reply #57 –
Quote from: RiverRat – on
Quote from: LP – on
Watson is not slower than Rowe.

Watson's decision making when he doesn't have the ball makes him look slow. He has surprisingly good closing speed when he commits. He is OK with the ball, and he gets a little better without the ball every passing game.

Watson IS slower than Rowe and possibly everyone else on the team - including Brock.

Watson's decision making when he doesn't have the ball makes him look slow. He always looks slower than his opponent - even when he is a loose man.

He has surprisingly good closing speed when he commits. When has anyone seen him commit? That's another reason why I prefer just about anyone else.

Actually just seen one bad game from him in his time in the seniors and that was last game. Given he didn't play last week there may have been a reason too. VFL games don't concern me. All that matters is how he performs in the seniors and he seems alot more committed there

Re: R3 Essendon V Carlton - Prematch Posturing

Reply #58 –
Quote from: laj – on
Quote from: Brettie – on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Quote from: denimundies – on
Ive changed my view on Watson over last few months. I think he'll be a good player.

I thought that too until he played a shocker vs Port....his lack of body on body work for a bloke his size is terrible, his U18 rebounding ability hid his lack of defensive ability
and its back to basics to get him up to speed and that could be a couple of years away..

Spot on EB.....exactly my thoughts. I went to the Port game thinking Watson had improved immeasurebly, left that game thinking the opposite. He was putrid.


Probably the only bad game though he's played and seems like he might've had an injury. They're all putrid at some stage of their careers.

If you thought he had imrproved, and i'm sure  you wouldn't have been imagining it, then you can't just suddenly write him off after one game.

He was bad Jim...that was the old Watson when he first arrived, slow, lacking any defensive plan on his opponents(maybe the coaches fault) and his lack of ability to lay body on Westhoff in particular was U18 kids football stuff.. He arrived late to contests and applied no pressure, when your man is 199cm you need to be pushing/shoving and using your body to upset him.
I would have dragged Watson and told to him to stop playing like a wimpy big girl and get physical.....

Re: R3 Essendon V Carlton - Prematch Posturing

Reply #59 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Pretty sure Cloke left him for dead a while back.

Is there anyone who isn't monstered by Cloke one on one?

Being on the end of some Cloke brutality is the norm, I am not sure that is a good comparison or fair on Watson. Cloke made Ted Richards look like a piss weak beginner in the goal square at the weekend.  ;)

Quote from: Thryleon – on
I have a feeling that the AFL will be desperate for us to win this week.  Ryder going down hurt, leaving them with Daniher and no one else as support ruck, a host of players getting their first few matches of AFL football, and although they gave a good effort against the Hawks, by the end of the game, I thought I saw a few of the Bombers players starting to look a bit tired and worn down.

Actually Daniher 2nd rucked against us in the last game last season and did OK, no taps but his run, recovery, marking and 2nd efforts made Warnock and Casboult look ineffective. I wouldn't buy into the lack of rucks, Carlilse also looked not too bad. The problem for them may be that they sacrifice a forward setup to compete in the ruck. The still have Hurley who has played both games back, and that new kid Ambrose who looks the goods as well.

Perhaps they will just let us win the ruck and tap it straight to Watson!  :-[
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"