Squad Announced:
Carlton's 29-man squad:
7. Dylan Buckley, 9. Patrick Cripps, 10. Harry McKay, 11. Sam Kerridge, 12. Blaine Boekhorst, 13. Jed Lamb, 14. Liam Jones, 16. Billie Smedts, 17. Sam Rowe, 18. Kristian Jaksch, 19. Liam Sumner, 20. Lachie Plowman, 22. Caleb Marchbank, 23. Jacob Weitering, 24. Rhys Palmer, 25. Zac Fisher, 26. Harrison Macreadie, 27. Dennis Armfield, 28. David Cuningham, 29. Cameron Polson, 30. Charlie Curnow, 31. Tom Williamson, 32. Nick Graham, 33. Jarrod Pickett, 35. Ed Curnow, 39. Dale Thomas, 42. Kym LeBois. 43. Simon White, 48. Matthew Korcheck
Great to see Cripps back, but damn it's going to be like lambs to the slaughter. Missing from the squad:
Bryce Gibbs
Sam Docherty
Marc Murphy
Kade Simpson
Levi Casboult (wasn't sure whether to list this as a bad thing or not) :-\
Also Jack Silvagni and Daniel Gorringe out.
Rumor is Cripps will go on the trip but not play, he is taking the opportunity to visit friends and family.
Would you play him a quarter though, is it really worth the risk?
Obviously without Kreuzer we will have Korcheck and Jones ruck. Sandilands is rumored to be back this week, ouch!
Keen to see how Williamson, Polson and Macreadie go.
Heat must be on Sumner, Cuningham, Armfield, Jaksch, Graham, Lamb and Boekhorst.
Rumor is Cripps will go on the trip but not play, he is taking the opportunity to visit friends and family.
Would you play him a quarter though, is it really worth the risk?
Obviously without Kreuzer we will have Korcheck and Jones ruck. Sandilands is rumored to be back this week, ouch!
Hmm. I think as an entity, we have to leave this decision somewhat up to the player. Cripps is the sort of player where if he declares himself fit, you find a spot in the team for him. Even if you play him at full forward, and run him on the ball once a quarter.
If he puts his hand up, then that means he feels good about playing, unless you know that he can't do what you want him to, he gets a guernsey.
I hope they don't ruck McKay, Sandilands has a marking contest habit of burying those massive knees of his in the small of an opponents back.
Aren't we playing at home against the saints?
I hope they don't ruck McKay, Sandilands has a marking contest habit of burying those massive knees of his in the small of an opponents back.
We are playing StK at Ikon Park. I think people are confused with next weeks game over in WA vs Fremantle...........
Rumor is Cripps will go on the trip but not play, he is taking the opportunity to visit friends and family.
Would you play him a quarter though, is it really worth the risk?
Obviously without Kreuzer we will have Korcheck and Jones ruck. Sandilands is rumored to be back this week, ouch!
Keen to see how Williamson, Polson and Macreadie go.
Heat must be on Sumner, Cuningham, Armfield, Jaksch, Graham, Lamb and Boekhorst.
Suspect you've got your weeks mixed up Spotted One. Freo is next week. ;)
Squad Announced:
Carlton's 29-man squad:
7. Dylan Buckley, 9. Patrick Cripps, 10. Harry McKay, 11. Sam Kerridge, 12. Blaine Boekhorst, 13. Jed Lamb, 14. Liam Jones, 16. Billie Smedts, 17. Sam Rowe, 18. Kristian Jaksch, 19. Liam Sumner, 20. Lachie Plowman, 22. Caleb Marchbank, 23. Jacob Weitering, 24. Rhys Palmer, 25. Zac Fisher, 26. Harrison Macreadie, 27. Dennis Armfield, 28. David Cuningham, 29. Cameron Polson, 30. Charlie Curnow, 31. Tom Williamson, 32. Nick Graham, 33. Jarrod Pickett, 35. Ed Curnow, 39. Dale Thomas, 42. Kym LeBois. 43. Simon White, 48. Matthew Korcheck
Really, really love seeing the kids/newbies getting a go, plus giving Pickett, Fisher and LeBois more game time. This is really good use of the JLT series (rather doing what we did under Pagan and set out to be February/March champs!).
Yes, we're playing the Saints at IP this Saturday.
It might be lambs to the slaughter, but this is exactly what we need.
No more hiding Nick Graham, Dylan Buckley, Blaine Boekhorst, Jed Lamb, Liam Jones, Billie Smedts, Sam Kerridge, Liam Sumner, Kristian Jaksch, Simon White, et al. Let's see if you blokes have even slightly what it takes to be a top consistent AFL-worth footballer that we can rely on and be an AFL Carlton man in our best 22. The heat is on, as the past legend Glenn Frey would say!
Time to be men, and stand up, not behind Judd (in the past), Cripps, Gibbs, Murphy, Simpson, Docherty, etc.
We'll get thumped, BUT, let's see who exactly does stand up.
We'll see some lads exposed on Saturday. And, we might see some become AFL footballers. It just might be the making of some. It's what we need IMHO!
Its a fine line between lambs to the slaughter, and its all got to do with the message, and the instruction.
I feel that perhaps our previous past lambs to the slaughter was all about expectation placed on players and perception of expectation which sets in when coaching relationships are not transparent.
i.e.
A youngster lines up on Scott Pendlebury. The instructions are, to get involved as much as possible, shadow him, learn how he plays and moves through traffic, and then afterwards review what worked, and what didnt with said player.
Provided that the player is not then targeted as to why Pendlebury cut you up, its all positive. They need to feel that the environment is one of learning, and not pressurised. Thats the difference.
This saturday, we are going young. We might get towelled up, but if the expectation is simply to learn how to play the game at the highest level, and what things people need to tidy up in their games, then all will be positive.
I feel that under Bolton for the first time in a very long time, we have an environment that doesnt foster self preservation at the expense of the team, and the way to judge that is not to look at the youngsters and their treatment, but the older blokes like Thomas, Simpson and co. If we treat Thomas like he needs to prove himself, then he will play in self preservation mode. If we allow him to just play footy and be positive influence, as well as come back at the end of the season and we will review the next contract extension, then we know we will have turned the corner as a football club.
None of this, "Micks boy, Hughes boy, Rogers boy, SOS boy" stuff, but a sustainable process driven review of where everyone is at, where we are at and who can help us moving forward.
This is simply an extension of that protracted process (hopefully).
Cripps will be Captain I should imagine for the game, or maybe even Ed Curnow. That could be good for Ed's leadership development.
Suspect you've got your weeks mixed up Spotted One. Freo is next week. ;)
Sorry boss my bad, I'd heard from WA sources Cripps would be visiting with the team but not playing. I was thinking Freo was this week.
Really, really love seeing the kids/newbies getting a go, plus giving Pickett, Fisher and LeBois more game time. This is really good use of the JLT series (rather doing what we did under Pagan and set out to be February/March champs!).
Exactly!
Giving the young blokes an opportunity to show what they can do and get a taste of AFL level footy is a great use of our practice games. However, I am a bit concerned about Cripps making the trip to Princes Park (sorry LP, couldn't resist!).
It will be interesting to see how Korcheck's development is progressing.
Exactly!
Giving the young blokes an opportunity to show what they can do and get a taste of AFL level footy is a great use of our practice games.
Was also hoping to see Jesse Glass-McCasker in action too.........
Was also hoping to see Jesse Glass-McCasker in action too.........
I suspect we won't see him now given Bolton's intention to play close to the round 1 lineup in the third JLT game.
I suspect we won't see him now given Bolton's intention to play close to the round 1 lineup in the third JLT game.
Sheehan and A. Silvagni also not getting a run off the rookie list. I thought both these guys might get a run this week??
Sheehan and A. Silvagni also not getting a run off the rookie list. I thought both these guys might get a run this week??
Good point. That is a surprise. Hopefully they dominate the VFL practice games.
Good point. That is a surprise. Hopefully they dominate the VFL practice games.
Likewise, that's one of the reasons I'm heading to Seaford Saturday morning to watch this game.
I think the squad named very clearly shows Bolts intention in PS. Taking what, half, the regular seniors out. This is all about exposure, experimentation, and excitement (that doesn't fit, just wanted to use another ex-word :P).
No wait, I'm excited. Very excited. Or at least I will be if big MK can show something. Like his fellow countryman did on his debut (was at the match, the crowd loved him). And you never know, maybe the Jones boy and KJ will feel the heat and play to the potential we've been waiting to see.
My guess is Bolts has a very transparent challenging but achievable learning plan for each player. This is the year to shine and meet the goals or look for another job. Whilst the older guys focus on leading the youngsters, there's quite a few of the in betweeners that must perform consistently to remain part of this exciting rebuild. There, I knew something was exciting.
All the best to the kids getting a run. Wear the Navy Blue with pride.
Plenty of opportunities for some 'green shoots' to sprout in this game. I look forward to seeing which of our young guys take their opportunity!!
Plenty of opportunities for some 'green shoots' to sprout in this game. I look forward to seeing which of our young guys take their opportunity!!
Exactly. Well put.
I'm keen to see how Polson goes. Macreadie and Williamson (could be a real smockie this one) too.
Plenty of opportunities for some 'green shoots' to sprout in this game. I look forward to seeing which of our young guys take their opportunity!!
If they don't sprout overnight that doesn't mean they are worm food and need to be turned back into the soil straight away.
Sometimes, they need time to sprout and its best we understand that this season, because it will be how things will go for our footy club this season.
Well let's just hope we see a big lift in our level of intensity this week. Hopefully Cripps will inspire this and we can avoid a repeat of last week's disappointing effort.
I see Hamill is coaching the Aints tomorrow.
Well let's just hope we see a big lift in our level of intensity this week. Hopefully Cripps will inspire this and we can avoid a repeat of last week's disappointing effort.
Reading Ed Curnows comments today just reaffirmed my belief we are overly dependent on Cripps and if doesnt play then we are in real trouble given we lack big bodied mids with intensity...
The lack of another bigger mid will cost us down the track either when Cripps tires or even worse gets injured.....reckon we were crazy to ignore a player like Barlow who had the lazy 31 possies
for GC in their JLT game....
Reading Ed Curnows comments today just reaffirmed my belief we are overly dependent on Cripps and if doesnt play then we are in real trouble given we lack big bodied mids with intensity...
The lack of another bigger mid will cost us down the track either when Cripps tires or even worse gets injured.....reckon we were crazy to ignore a player like Barlow who had the lazy 31 possies for GC in their JLT game....
I'd much rather see Charlie Curnow, SOJ and others spending time in the midfield (as they did against Melbourne) than give games to Barlow in his retirement year.
My take on Ed's interview is that we have loaded up on blokes who can kick goals and Korcheck may knock a few Saints over on Saturday :)
Yes, we're playing the Saints at IP this Saturday.
It might be lambs to the slaughter, but this is exactly what we need.
No more hiding Nick Graham, Dylan Buckley, Blaine Boekhorst, Jed Lamb, Liam Jones, Billie Smedts, Sam Kerridge, Liam Sumner, Kristian Jaksch, Simon White, et al. Let's see if you blokes have even slightly what it takes to be a top consistent AFL-worth footballer that we can rely on and be an AFL Carlton man in our best 22. The heat is on, as the past legend Glenn Frey would say!
Time to be men, and stand up, not behind Judd (in the past), Cripps, Gibbs, Murphy, Simpson, Docherty, etc.
We'll get thumped, BUT, let's see who exactly does stand up.
We'll see some lads exposed on Saturday. And, we might see some become AFL footballers. It just might be the making of some. It's what we need IMHO!
100% agree. Good post
Reading Ed Curnows comments today just reaffirmed my belief we are overly dependent on Cripps and if doesnt play then we are in real trouble given we lack big bodied mids with intensity...
The lack of another bigger mid will cost us down the track either when Cripps tires or even worse gets injured.....reckon we were crazy to ignore a player like Barlow who had the lazy 31 possies
for GC in their JLT game....
Yep, it's starting to look that way EB. Today's game should be interesting against tough opposition.
Yep, it's starting to look that way EB. Today's game should be interesting against tough opposition.
That's well and good, and I was certainly very keen on getting Barlow, but looking at the Dogs, for example. Who are their 'big bodied' mids after the Bont?
They're more a mosquito fleet harking back to the days of Marcou, Ashman etc?
Or is it more than our rucks simply aren't allowing our mids first use of the pill. Of no import how big you are if yuo can't win the pill. Ask Caleb D?
I do think we're a tad over fixated on body size folks. All other things being equal, great if you Cripp's size but things are seldom 'all other things being equal'?
That's well and good, and I was certainly very keen on getting Barlow, but looking at the Dogs, for example. Who are their 'big bodied' mids after the Bont?
They're more a mosquito fleet harking back to the days of Marcou, Ashman etc?
We don't have, yet, players who play with anywhere near the intensity of the Dogs. Maybe that will come as our younger talent develops, we'll have to see. In the meantime some additional muscle inside would be of great help imo.
Is it a lack of big bodies, or just a lack of players who can win their own ball. We were smashed in this aspect in the second half of last year, and it looked more of the same in JLT1
Is it a lack of big bodies, or just a lack of players who can win their own ball. We were smashed in this aspect in the second half of last year, and it looked more of the same in JLT1
Maybe a combination of both?
Perhaps best not to start a list of what we currently lack.....
I'm not sure of the 2017 group but there were a lot of quality bigger mids in the 2016 draft, a draft it would have been particularly useful in which to have had more picks. Nichevo, you can't fix every part of the list in one year. Surely it must be a priority going forwards?
Maybe a combination of both?
As Doc Neeson once said, "it's all in their head, the doctor said......" and they knew it was true.....
Our boys have collectively lacked hunger, on a consistent basis, for so long now......
Any one know is cripps is playing.
I think the extended squad has to be trimmed by 3.
Anyone know in northern blues if any of those named on the extended bench played?
As Doc Neeson once said, "it's all in their head, the doctor said......" and they knew it was true.....
Our boys have collectively lacked hunger, on a consistent basis, for so long now......
Yep, it's a strange affliction that seems to be triggered when a player walks in through the front door of Ikon Park! ???
Let's hope we are more hungry in today's game.
Maybe a combination of both?
It is absolutely a combination of both, and they are obviously inter-related. To be able to win your own ball consistently at AFL you need to have a decent size and strength about you to take the knocks and keep doing it for 4 quarters.
If you look at the WB they have 7 players in the top 100 for Contested Ball in 2016 - we had 3. We have Cripps [who is ranked 2 behind Josh K] and then we drop away to Curnow and Gibbs. The obvious point is we don't bat deep, and if Cripps gets injured we have a massive hole that we can't fill.
Dalhaus and Macrae and those types are not huge, but they are strong and seasoned now. Like many on here I thought we needed to add a Barlow or a DeBoer to our group to provide depth and coverage to this area of our game, but we went a different path. Last week we got absolutely smashed in this area, and we don't have the defensive pressure of say a Hawthorn to get the ball back once we lose a contest.
With the midfield we have in today we will probably get smashed again in this area.
Not sure where to put this so I'll put it here!
Went to the NBs game this morning. Few comments:
Firstly, NBs 10.13.73 def Sandy 8.14.62.
Of the NBs listed blokes liked: Sam Russell, Strachan, Luke Russell, Stevens, Pearce, Glover and McCabe. Who the hell is Angus Milham, the new ruckman... seemed about 20ft tall! Did alright too.
NBs seemed well organised and hard at it. Impressed. Led most of the day and a couple of late ones flattered Sandy.
JGM injured early. Sumner injured early also so not much to say about those two!
I thought the best of the 6 NBs listed players ( remember 2 out early injured!) were Sheehan, Jaksch (yes, he was working hard!!!!) and kicked a few goals and Le Bois. Gus was a rock in defense and his disposal skills were great - wrapped to see him get through and look good. Jaksch surprised but remember this is pre season and Sandy weren't great but credit given where it's due - he marked, competed and kicked well. Le Bois kicked another brilliant goal on the wrong angle for a left footer, he didn't figure a lot in the game but what he did was good and very encouraging.
Kerr? Let's just say there is an enormous amount of room for improvement!
Not sure where to put this so I'll put it here!
Went to the NBs game this morning. Few comments:
Firstly, NBs 10.13.73 def Sandy 8.14.62.
Of the NBs listed blokes liked: Sam Russell, Strachan, Luke Russell, Stevens, Pearce, Glover and McCabe. Who the hell is Angus Milham, the new ruckman... seemed about 20ft tall! Did alright too.
NBs seemed well organised and hard at it. Impressed. Led most of the day and a couple of late ones flattered Sandy.
JGM injured early. Sumner injured early also so not much to say about those two!
I thought the best of the 6 NBs listed players ( remember 2 out early injured!) were Sheehan, Jaksch (yes, he was working hard!!!!) and kicked a few goals and Le Bois. Gus was a rock in defense and his disposal skills were great - wrapped to see him get through and look good. Jaksch surprised but remember this is pre season and Sandy weren't great but credit given where it's due - he marked, competed and kicked well. Le Bois kicked another brilliant goal on the wrong angle for a left footer, he didn't figure a lot in the game but what he did was good and very encouraging.
Kerr? Let's just say there is an enormous amount of room for improvement!
Great job - thanks for that.
Sumner and Jaksch [and Sheehan] must all be a fair way down the pecking order if they aren't getting a game today I would have thought?? Does anybody know if they have had interrupted preparations, or are they just on the outer at the moment??
Thanks Baggers - some green sprouts :)
Milham is from Essendon's VFL side and he is 210cm apparently. No more undersized ruckmen in the NBs!
Thanks Baggers - some green sprouts :)
Milham is from Essendon's VFL side and he is 210cm apparently. No more undersized ruckmen in the NBs!
210 - f... me.
Big John Nicholls was 189cm!
That's a blow re Sumner, I was looking forward to seeing how he would go in the 1's today, not even picked
Fair hangar from Liam Jones in the first minute
This is a screenshot of the match feed from the AFL website. Another example of the recent discussion regarding our F50 entries.
Buckley off injured.
Over Palmer already. If he isn't the worst kick into F50 of all time, he's top 3.
From listening on the radio, there seem to be a lot of free kicks and the Saints F50 entries seem to be too quick and too smooth.
That's two donuts games for Bucks Jnr... doesn't auger well for his future in what is a make or break year for him.
A word of warning, if you're listening to SENs call, Darren Parkin is running at about 60% accuracy in identifying players. Classic example: called Pickett, Lamb!!! (Easily mistaken...not!)
Blues much more intense this week, much better systems, a couple of cheapies from the maggots towards the end of the qtr see the Aints up at qtr time, bit hard on Palmer Doc IMO, Picket marks that easy one at half forward we get a shot on goal, duffs it and the Aints get the next 2...
A word of warning, if you're listening to SENs call, Darren Parkin is running at about 60% accuracy in identifying players. Classic example: called Pickett, Lamb!!! (Easily mistaken...not!)
Yes, they look like twins. I'm surprised their parents can tell them apart.
I'm listening to SEN. Maybe I should change.
Saints gifted 2 highly questionable goals.
Macreadie looks like a real find.
Commentators not even bothering to call the newer players names but I noticed Polson a couple of times and he looks very good. Fisher was very quiet.
Nice to see a little more intensity this week, delivery into the forward line is very scrappy . Partly leading par terms and also from the mids. A couple of easy marks missed have made a difference.
Season hasnt even started and already f***ing hate the umpires.
5 out of the 6 goals have come from assistance from the maggots.
Unfortunately Simon white is the biggest craptruck in the afl.
Undisciplined...can't blame the umpire for that.
I gave it from my lounge-room
>:(
Appreciate a score please?
Great job - thanks for that.
Sumner and Jaksch [and Sheehan] must all be a fair way down the pecking order if they aren't getting a game today I would have thought?? Does anybody know if they have had interrupted preparations, or are they just on the outer at the moment??
Imagine Sumner will be a part of the plan. Imagine Jaksch might get squeezed out these days though as our KP depth seems to be better. One of those back might go forward with McKay with Casboult rucking given our injuries in that dept.
Giving away 50's , silly from senior players hard to bridge gap when our forward line is in nappies
Looks like our coaching staff have fixed Weiters up, he's a proper Carlton player now!
They've drummed any individual brilliance right out of him! ;)
Appreciate a score please?
38-14 Saints favour - about 6 minutes into the 2nd q.
38-14 Saints favour - about 6 minutes into the 2nd q.
Thanks
5 Goals from frees so far
It should be a compulsory requirement in AFL media contracts that commentators cannot call games involving teams they barrack for!
Another stupid free we give away costs us a goal
WTF Rowe. 45m out and you pass???!!!
General skill errors are impeding any cohesive efforts going forward. Missing hand passes , sloppy field kicking handing it to the saints
WTF Rowe. 45m out and you pass???!!!
Unbelievable .....
Nice pass Daisy....wtf
Comedy of errors all round ATM. , inexperience showing now
Some of Korchek's tap work is pretty good...not sure he can offer much else at this stage but he could be worth the effort down the track.
Nice goal set up by Pickett.
Weitering looks out of sorts, no surety in his arial work today
This is ccurnows best game for us already. Cripps quiet.
Appreciate a score please?
Call is available via the AFL app
Any team that has kerridge, Curnow, palmer and white with the most disposals isn't going to win. But the young cohort are at least having a crack.
Could do without that North Melbourne great Dalsanto's biased barracking
Disposal and decision making is our biggest problem today.
As opposed to last week when literally everything was our problem.
Macreadie is the biggest story for me. Looks the goods.
Not in love with the umpiring but it's preseason and we've got bigger problems so who really cares.
Kids are showing a bit like Cunners, McCredie et al but more "established" players simply not stepping up.
Thomas... simply pathetic.
Boekhorst... pay his contract out now, he's taking the p1ss with today's showing. What unbelievable recruiting, FMD.
We've got too many blokes that are slow with iffy skills like White, Kerridge, Curnow, Thomas, and Graham. Can't play all these guys each week, they're boat anchors.
Weitering looks out of sorts, no surety in his arial work today
Agreed but hopefully he improves second half.
Tick:
Cunningham
Charlie C
Maccreadie
Fisher (in bursts)
Crosses
Thomas
Boekhurst
Others:
Various opinions ( Cripps is playing the Murphy role from last week... get a game under your belt and don't get injured!!)
Kids are showing a bit like Cunners, McCredie et al but more "established" players simply not stepping up.
Thomas... simply pathetic.
Boekhorst... pay his contract out now, he's taking the p1ss with today's showing. What unbelievable recruiting, FMD.
We've got too many blokes that are slow with iffy skills like White, Kerridge, Curnow, Thomas, and Graham. Can't play all these guys each week, they're boat anchors.
In the end as long as the young blokes play well.
Not going to judge Boekhorst on his first practice hitout yet but would certainly like to see him improve.
Haven't seen Jones since the first minute, may have had1 other kick, but otherwise, invisible
Time and again we get an opportunity to break free and our link handballs fall apart pretty quick. We really need to sharpen up in this area because it's a fundamental part of today's footy and both melb and stk have been vastly superior in this area.
Haven't seen Jones since the first minute, may have had1 other kick, but otherwise, invisible
He gave away a down field free kick for steamrolling someone which I quite liked but that's not much to hang your hat on.
Agreed. We are going at 50% efficiency by foot which is abysmal. How many times do our guys just panic and throw it on their foot, or give a crapty handball to a bloke under pressure????
Just like last week the opposition is doing what they please, and our forward entries [when we get them] are a shambles. The kicking into the i50 is schoolboy bad. We are getting smashed with tackle pressure which is also causing plenty of turnovers.
Some nice moments from a few of the youngsters, but a lot of dross from Thomas, Boek, Lamb, Buckley etc. It's hard to comment too much when you have so many non AFL standard footballers together in one place...........
Buckley's been off since mid first qtr after he hurt himself
Turnovers on the half back line when no real pressure is on it hurting us on the scoreboard . No direction and no inspiration in the forward half at all
Simon White is the biggest 5hittruck in the afl
Lack of Skill errors Creating the turnovers are making a mokery of any effort we put in. We look worse than last year ATM
Turning into another flogging and C. Curnow off injured?
I am sooooooooooo glad I didn't bother going today. Have those green shoots that sprung out last year been trampled on.
:(
This is vomit worthy.
Putting aside how bad they are, I said last week that we still have no system or idea or method, call it what you will, when kicking out after the opposition have scored a behind.
That has got nothing to do with the quality or otherwise of the players on the ground.
They have had 5 months to work out some sort of system and the coaches haven't done so. In fact, Bolton has had all of last year plus 5 months to come up with something. How hard can it be to watch what the top teams do and TRY, yes, I know we aren't much good, but at least TRY, to emulate them.
It's an absolute joke.
Lack of Skill errors Creating the turnovers are making a mokery of any effort we put in. We look worse than last year ATM
Hard to tell if it it's worse than last year until they play real footy. We were dead ordinary in this game last year against Essendon that weren't really Essendon.
I've never been more disheartened leading into a season than I am right now.. basic skill errors, lack of effort and floggings is not a great look going into a long season.. awful stuff.
I am sooooooooooo glad I didn't bother going today. Have those green shoots that sprung out last year been trampled on.
:(
Green shoots maybe getting a bit scorched by the sun?
I too was thinking of going until a sudden flash of reality kicked in - glad I didn't bother either!
I just feel sick watching this crap....wtf have they been doing for the last 5 months....the skills and decision making of the team today is suburban C Grade at best >:( >:(
Starc 5-2-1-13
India 1/20 off 10 overs.
We're not trying very hard at all
Yep. This is putrid stuff.
We look like amos reserves. Completely inept in all departments and absolutely embarrassing to watch.
Thomas / White / etc are the worst offenders.
So hard to watch. We have so many years of sh1t ahead.
Our kids are miles away and the poor things are playing beside donkeys like Jones, Palmer, White and Thomas - then you add in below average players like Smedts, Rowe, graham, Kerridge and they have little guidance. Apart from cripps, Weitering and doc amazingly we have no other players under 23 of any quality.
I'm depressed.
We're not trying very hard at all
Yes, and don't forget our outs - Murph, Gibbs, Krooz etc. Although one wonders what if any difference they would've made.
The optimists on this site should be reaching for the panic button about now... zero structure, zero midfield and zero leadership on display.
The kids aren't the problem, its the non-existent "middle tier" hacks that produce so little.
Sh1ts me no end how the aints cough up chump change draft picks and end up with valuable players like Stevens (K), Bruce, Longer, Steele and we continue to recruit absolute spuds like Palmer and Smedts. Can't believe some on this site reckon those blokes have value.
A thick black line should be drawn through a lot of blokes going forward, the likes of Buckley, Graham, Thomas, Boekhorst, Smedts, Palmer, Rowe, White etc etc have had a lot of chances and show F all far too often. Play kids and build a future, don't continue falling behind with the same bunch of hacks.
We're not trying very hard at all
WTF are they trying to achieve? I just can't believe the coaches would send them out there just to swan around and not try??
OMG the girls team kick bigger scores then us.
Turnovers on the half back line when no real pressure is on it hurting us on the scoreboard . No direction and no inspiration in the forward half at all
In many ways this summarizes our position as a rebuilding team.
Some glimpses from Charlie and Cunningham.
Would like to see some intensity under the pressure of fatigue last quarter.
You would think players old be putting in the effort for a game round one, but not seeing much desire in our guys
The Hyphen reckons it'll take ten years to overcome the damage the MM era did to our club, he thinks so much damage has been done to the club culture we have to lose virtually all the exposed staff and players before we are clear any effects. They are damaged goods!
I thought Bolt's did OK last season to arrest the slide, but the second half of the season exposed just how deep the wounds go. Let's see what happens when the real season starts.
The third quarter was almost exclusively played on St Kilda's terms, with Saints recording 17 more forward 50s in the term (the largest differential in a preseason quarter since 2014).
Quote from AFL commentary.
With all the doom and gloom on this site, i've been transformed into an optimist. :-\
Early days....half this team will be Bullants players, we lack leadership and know how today, still think we needed to recruit a player like Barlow to help Cripps and add some experience and size around the ball...no need to panic, we need our best team on the field to compete and lets be realistic...the Saints are a more developed list and we wont be making ground on them anytime soon..
WTF are they trying to achieve? I just can't believe the coaches would send them out there just to swan around and not try??
Bolts is a crafty bugger. I would not put anything past him. He seems the perfect type to try a technique like foxing. Then again.
Definitely depressing to listen to this going on. Our putrid recruiting and player development has really come back to bite us on the arse. How can we have people in the club paid to make such horrific decisions. I'm lost and disillusioned.
Staggered that our lack of scoring was so well highlighted last yr & seems to have had zero improvement this year?
White just about gets his head taken off, twice, in a tackle....walks off holding his neck and gets penalised for holding the ball.
So the tackle no longer has to be legal? Should he change his number to 14 and turn his jumper into hoops??
Stevens has 5 goals Carlton has 3 :'(
That's it for me. I'm off to mow lawns. Better than putting up with this cr@p.
Staggered that our lack of scoring was so well highlighted last yr & seems to have had zero improvement this year?
I've been banging on about that for months.
I don't think we've overlooked such a glaring weakness since we overlooked Talia in favour of Lucas.
Stevens has 5 goals Carlton has 3 :'(
Darcy Vescio had 3.
We're the only team in this JLT series that has been pumped twice in a row. Most of the other games have been competitive.
The only thing this game is achieving is the destruction of confidence, player and supporter.
I've been banging on about that for months.
I don't think we've overlooked such a glaring weakness since we overlooked Talia in favour of Lucas.
You and me both, we don't even create chances these days half forward line is a desert these days
Bolts is a crafty bugger. I would not put anything past him. He seems the perfect type to try a technique like foxing. Then again.
Bolton is untested as a tactician....great educator of young players but still a novice in terms of game tactics and he too is finding his way in this area IMO.
WTF are they trying to achieve? I just can't believe the coaches would send them out there just to swan around and not try??
Depends what they're trying to do. We can see they're not working hard. 4pts aren't at stake. We were pretty crap last pre-season but the first half of the season was pretty good.
This is definitely headed for a 100+ point demoralisation. Just the kind of result we need in the preseason - NOT!
Hopefully we'll see our best available 22 next game and they do a LOT better! This game will highlight most of the delists for this year no doubt.
Weitering did not get better in the second half. He in fact got worse and has now started to resemble a blind man playing without a bell in the ball. Cannot hold a chest mark. Took 3 goes to pick up a stationary ball off the ground. Then kicks straight to the opposition.
Bolton is untested as a tactician....great educator of young players but still a novice in terms of game tactics and he too is finding his way in this area IMO.
Yes, that's a very fair point EB. I was just trying to cheer myself up somewhat. I'm keeping to my standard policy of withholding judgment until the first few rounds of the season.
The umpiring did not get any better in the second half.
Weitering did not get better in the second half. He in fact got worse and has now started to resemble a blind man playing without a bell in the ball. Cannot hold a chest mark. Took 3 goes to pick up a stationary ball off the ground. Then kicks straight to the opposition.
That's the confidence sapping I was talking about at work.
The problem is this confidence sapping effect can be season lasting, you need to give players a little win in pre-season, we are not giving them a cracker!
These sprouts we keep hearing about are looking very dried out at the moment , hope there is some magic juice about to refresh them
These sprouts we keep hearing about are looking very dried out at the moment , hope there is some magic juice about to refresh them
It's not CheatsFC, but one has to wonder how many other clubs are into these practices! Our players seem to move forward at a snails pace, at least those we aren't actively destroying.
For years I have worried about our player development, today was a significant opportunity to measure that whether we take it seriously or not, I cannot work out why we have it so wrong!
My oh my, absolutely nothing to take out of that. Next.
It's just odd LP , we can't seem to create scoring options, if we have a shot from the 50 , most teams can convert, we scrag the odd goal , but don't have a defined avenue in any regard
Hard to find positives amongst the rubble of this game.
No injuries woukd have been something but we had at least 2.
So many stupid players.
That was StK best team and they beat our best team easily last year.
Macresdie looks good to me. Polson showed a bit.
Bruce has 7 , how can one player kick almost twice as many as our whole side?
If Daisy Thomas doesn't make 'that announcement ' in the coming weeks, he could legitimately be classified as a thief.
Bolton's game plan is so comprehensively picked apart by Richo yet we clearly have less than nothing as a plan B.
My oh my, absolutely nothing to take out of that. Next.
Yep. Why did we bother to even put a team out there - just a chopping block for a Saints morale-booster? ???
If Daisy Thomas doesn't make 'that announcement ' in the coming weeks, he could be legitimately be classified as a thief.
Can he take Simon White with him?
Weeter's confidence is shot, having to play next to White, Thomas and Smedts has broken him.
Then again, playing with those muppets with a non-existent midfield would break Bruce Doull.
White just about gets his head taken off, twice, in a tackle....walks off holding his neck and gets penalised for holding the ball.
So the tackle no longer has to be legal? Should he change his number to 14 and turn his jumper into hoops??
I was flabbergasted too. Ffs does a guy have to break his neck literally... Or just get his head ripped off ???
Weeter's confidence is shot, having to play next to White, Thomas and Smedts has broken him.
Then again, playing with those muppets with a non-existent midfield would break Bruce Doull.
Possibly even break his silence.
Then again, playing with those muppets with a non-existent midfield would break Bruce Doull.
Bruce Doull would have been BOG in a game like today!
We had no midfield today, no midfield structure, no defensive running from players forward of HB.
Yep, even the great one might be forced to utter some comment to the likes of Thomas... something like "get serious you weak dog or get out of my ^)*%)&ing way".
Oh well, as Lods has said a few times, a loss is very good for business around here. Even a pre season loss.
All those posters saying we have half a team in today and using that as an excuse are absolutely delusional.
I'm not at all critical of the kids. It's our senior players out there today that are simply bloody awful. Their skills are deplorable! Well below local footy standard which is a bloody joke. Missing target from 20 metres more often then they hit them.
I'm no coach but Why the heck do we waste a spot on our list with these players that will never amount to anything!!
Jones
Thomas
White
Kerridge
Graham
Armfield
Lamb
Smedts
Boekhurst
Buckley
Palmer
That's a fair chunk of the team that played today and an insight into how deep our woes are.
And why the hell you would draft Parmer over Barlow is beyond me.
I can only think that BB MAY have used this and last game to show players just how far off we are as an AFL force and how much work we have to do? Dispel any possible complacency. If that was the aim then it has been very successful. ::)
If that was the idea then it was a cr@p one!
Bruce has 7 , how can one player kick almost twice as many as our whole side?
Well let's see. You have s ruckman rucking to strong speedy mids, who kick it to any number of lead up forwards. Real forwards, who know how to kick straight ^-^
Well let's see. You have s ruckman rucking to strong speedy mids, who kick it to any number of lead up forwards. Real forwards, who know how to kick straight ^-^
Quick send that to Bolts & the other coaches they might not have realised that lol sad but true LoveNavy
I keep thinking about how Richo and his cohorts have managed to turn the Saints around and into a highly competitive young outfit in such a short time when we are clearly really struggling.
I can only think that we made such poor recruiting and contractual ballsups that it is just taking us much longer (far too long) to shed the dead wood and progress the rebuild. That should be our new theme song - "Oh the Deadwood Stage is a comin' on over the hill"!
Well that was pretty soul destroying.
I didn't expect much with the side we had in, but the effort and intensity from the mid tier players is what disappoints me the most. The basic skills on display were horrible. Our tackle pressure was non existent, and we turn the ball over with terrible decisions and awful execution.
I could name names but I won't waste my time - we all know who they are.
Well, I'm glad I follow the Patriots in the NFL. They give great value even though they've been hobbled by the draft and penalties. The only thing I can see that's anything near similar from the Blues is that Bill Belichick and Brendon Bolton have the same initials.
Bruce has 7 , how can one player kick almost twice as many as our whole side?
Same way Adelaides top 4 goal kickers last year outscored our whole list.
I keep thinking about how Richo and his cohorts have managed to turn the Saints around and into a highly competitive young outfit in such a short time when we are clearly really struggling.
I can only think that we made such poor recruiting and contractual ballsups that it is just taking us much longer (far too long) to shed the dead wood and progress the rebuild. That should be our new theme song - "Oh the Deadwood Stage is a comin' on over the hill"!
Keep in mind Richo, Mitchell, Worsfold, Lyon, etc., etc.. were all at Carlton and judged not to be up to our standard.
It turns out our standard was the problem! :o
It turns out our standard was the problem! :o
Been saying that for a while too.
All those posters saying we have half a team in today and using that as an excuse are absolutely delusional.
I'm not at all critical of the kids. It's our senior players out there today that are simply bloody awful. Their skills are deplorable! Well below local footy standard which is a bloody joke. Missing target from 20 metres more often then they hit them.
I'm no coach but Why the heck do we waste a spot on our list with these players that will never amount to anything!!
Jones
Thomas
White
Kerridge
Graham
Armfield
Lamb
Smedts
Boekhurst
Buckley
Palmer
That's a fair chunk of the team that played today and an insight into how deep our woes are.
And why the hell you would draft Parmer over Barlow is beyond me.
Thomas has already amounted to something. Ask Collingwood. Absolute star. Dead on the water here though.
Reckon Armfield always has some value and think Buckley offers a bit as maybe Kerridge. As for the other I wouldn't miss them if they didn't play.
Keep in mind Richo, Mitchell, Worsfold, Lyon, etc., etc.. were all at Carlton and judged not to be up to our standard.
It turns out our standard was the problem! :o
We've had some damn good coaches at Carlton just that they were never senior ones here.
Maybe they were happy to escape...lol!!!
Jaksch apparently kicked 4 in the NB's and Sheehan got though the game well.
Jaksch may be happy to stay there rather than try his luck in the senior forward line..lol.
We've had some damn good coaches at Carlton just that they were never senior ones here.
Maybe they were happy to escape...lol!!!
Didn't Richo leave because MM arrived as Senior Coach? He had a good run with Hinkley at Port afterwards.
Didn't Richo leave because MM arrived as Senior Coach? He had a good run with Hinkley at Port afterwards.
Yes, think that's how it went. Pity in hindsight we just didn't make Richo our coach at that point.
Been saying that for a while too.
Last season Parkin said Carlton had the worst list in the AFL, a lot of us pasted him for saying that, treated him like a senile old bastard.
But he's laughing now!
I'm not sure what any coach could do, or how to fix that problem. But having a sh1t list doesn't help a beginner coach, and previously having an experienced coach didn't help the list at all!
Last season Parkin said Carlton had the worst list in the AFL, a lot of us pasted him for saying that, treated him like a senile old bastard.
But he's laughing now!
I'm not sure what any coach could do, or how to fix that problem. But having a sh1t list doesn't help a beginner coach, and previously having an experienced coach didn't help the list at all!
Won't get too caught up in a practice match series. He said it last year then we won 6 of our first 11 games after woeful practice match series. Attitude has much to do with pre-season game. Just hope we don't bring that attitude to the real games then we will be in all sorts of crap.
Think we have more options with kids this year. Mightn't get us up the ladder but will help us develop.
I'm just gonna cool my jets for another week and ignore JLT 1 and 2. But if they dish up crappola like that in JLT 3 versus Freo after being told week 3 is when we stiffen up the side up in readiness for rnd 1? Then I will panic and resign myself to a very looooong year ahead..
Its a rebuild, I remember Dees, Saints all being smashed by other teams early on....this isnt going to be a pretty year IMo but thats what you get in the first 2-3 years when you start again from rock bottom. Sit back and enjoy the journey but expect a few uncomfortable bumps and turns.
I like Marchbank, Pickett and Fisher as new players.....three for the future IMO.....
Note:...SOS may have missed one of his own in Jack Steele from GWS...big bodied mid in the Josh Kennedy mode....bit disappointed he isnt ours, thought he was very impressive today...
Jaksch apparently kicked 4 in the NB's and Sheehan got though the game well.
Jaksch may be happy to stay there rather than try his luck in the senior forward line..lol.
Predictable!
If Jaksch worth a crack in front of Simon White I'd be amazed.
Jaksch can at least kick.
Bolton clearly hates his guts with a passion.
If Jaksch worth a crack in front of Simon White I'd be amazed.
Jaksch can at least kick.
Bolton clearly hates his guts with a passion.
Not as much me thinks as you hate White! ???
What did he do to you, punch you in the nose at a nightclub? :o
If this circus act doesn't improve, more people will turnout for the womens game than the mens
Perhaps obamas unisex changeroom laws adopted here, ironically might uncover who should be playing where.
screw, i prepared myself last year as year 1 out of rock bottom.
I know its pre season, but i dont like what i see as a collective so far
If Jaksch worth a crack in front of Simon White I'd be amazed.
Jaksch can at least kick.
Bolton clearly hates his guts with a passion.
Tend to agree...Jaksch could kick 14 and I doubt Bolton would be that interested....I'd be trying him down forward given he kicks straight..
Watched Rowe get the ball 40m out and instead of going back and kicking the goal he kicked a lollypop pass to Charlie Curnow I think it was and missed him by a mile....
I'd be trying every combo I could to get some system down forward...
Last season Parkin said Carlton had the worst list in the AFL, a lot of us pasted him for saying that, treated him like a senile old bastard.
But he's laughing now!
I'm not sure what any coach could do, or how to fix that problem. But having a sh1t list doesn't help a beginner coach, and previously having an experienced coach didn't help the list at all!
The list has been half the problem. Wrong culture in it.
Ratts started it with Fev (too little too late to some extent)
Mick ditched at least 1/3 if not 1/2 the list in his time there.
Bolts had a big cleanout on top of that with 15 going.
No one coach is to blame, its been a big issue for over a decade.
What you do to fix it, is continue to do what we've been doing, weed out the problem.
Start with a couple of #1 picks.
If Adelaide come back to the table with an improved offer, goodbye Gibbs.
Shop Murphy around and take whatever you can get towards young talent either picks or young kids.
Didn't Richo leave because MM arrived as Senior Coach? He had a good run with Hinkley at Port afterwards.
Richo wanted to learn the trade in the hope of getting a senior gig. I think he'd already worked under Mick previously, so there wasn't a whole lot for him to learn from staying.
All those posters saying we have half a team in today and using that as an excuse are absolutely delusional.
I'm not at all critical of the kids. It's our senior players out there today that are simply bloody awful. Their skills are deplorable! Well below local footy standard which is a bloody joke. Missing target from 20 metres more often then they hit them.
I'm no coach but Why the heck do we waste a spot on our list with these players that will never amount to anything!!
Jones
Thomas
White
Kerridge
Graham
Armfield
Lamb
Smedts
Boekhurst
Buckley
Palmer
Farewell games ;)
I Love my club....I Love my club....I Love my club....I Love my club....I Love my club.... :-\
I'm under no illusions as to where our Club is it. And I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we got the wooden spoon this year. But honestly I thought we looked like an U18 team today. Not just the abysmal skill set, but the physical stature of players. We have so many guys out there that look like that kid that hands me my Quarter Pounder through the drive thru window.
Gonna be a long and frustrating year. And if you don't convince yourself that there is a plan in place and you need to trust the process, then you will end up in a mental home.
I'm under no illusions as to where our Club is it. And I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we got the wooden spoon this year. But honestly I thought we looked like an U18 team today. Not just the abysmal skill set, but the physical stature of players. We have so many guys out there that look like that kid that hands me my Quarter Pounder through the drive thru window.
Gonna be a long and frustrating year. And if you don't convince yourself that there is a plan in place and you need to trust the process, then you will end up in a mental home.
Most of us are already there.
No Simmo, Doc, Murph, Gibbs, Krooz. Today is a good reason why you don't play too many kids at once. Bolts stated in the after match comments :
"There's some young kids who couldn't hold on for more than a quarter and a half today, but we'll challenge them to do that.
"For them to get better, we need to expose them to develop them. Within that, we will challenge (the things) they need to improve on."
Glad we chose to go to the NBs game today instead of the seniors! At least we saw a win and some pretty good footy for this time of the year. (NBs won by 11 pts).
Encouraging signs were sparse for the seniors today, though I thought Polson and Macreadie showed enough to suggest they'll be senior players. In fact I'd put Polson in front of Cuningham and Boekhorst (Lucas 2 and 3? ;)) at this stage. You'd think that C Curnow is going to be a ripper - hope the injury is not bad. Cripps will be better for the run.
Noticed this today - Has there ever been a list with less under 26 year old talent then us?
Reckon we have about 6 in this bracket tops, with 5-6 in the over 27 bracket.
We have a handful of promising kids (like every team had) but once Simmo and co hang up the boots there's very little sitting behind them.
Cripps Doc Weitering Plowman and Bryne then there's daylight.
Most of us are already there.
No Simmo, Doc, Murph, Gibbs, Krooz. Today is a good reason why you don't play too many kids at once. Bolts stated in the after match comments :
"There's some young kids who couldn't hold on for more than a quarter and a half today, but we'll challenge them to do that.
"For them to get better, we need to expose them to develop them. Within that, we will challenge (the things) they need to improve on."
The Aints were missing just as many of their starting 22, so who's out is no excuse.
In any case, who is who and who is in or out doesn't stop players making an effort even if it's just for their own self-respect. But I didn't see any self-respect, pride or professionalism, which is a massive worry!
Noticed this today - Has there ever been a list with less under 26 year old talent then us?
Reckon we have about 6 in this bracket tops, with 5-6 in the over 27 bracket.
We have a handful of promising kids (like every team had) but once Simmo and co hang up the boots there's very little sitting behind them.
Cripps Doc Weitering Plowman and Bryne then there's daylight.
Not sure if you watched fox footy, but David King has been doing an graphical list analysis of each teams players in relation to other teams.
It is broken down by age and uses some kind of 'ranking points' and a % is assigned to each individual player, either positive or negative in relation to other players in the same age and position as him.
Example...
Weitering was +35%. Meaning for all defenders of his age, he is 35% better than average.
Simpsons was similar. Above average for his age and position, as you'd expect.
I think Cripps was our highest player with 40-45% above players of same age and position.
OK, so over the whole list, i think anything that is roughly 5%+/- is ignored.
The saints had 15 players who were deemed to be above average for their age/position.
Carlton had 5 (or 6?).
FYI, the positives were Weitering, Simpson, Cripps, Gibbs, Docherty (and maybe 1 other).
Negatives included Kreuzer and Murphy....and obviously a whole lot of others.
In a nutshell, as a rule, our whole list is underperforming and/or simply not up to the level required.
I can only think that BB MAY have used this and last game to show players just how far off we are as an AFL force and how much work we have to do? Dispel any possible complacency. If that was the aim then it has been very successful. ::)
If that was the idea then it was a cr@p one!
That's very much (part of) what Bolts said post-match.
The PS gives exposure to the youngsters, who otherwise only guess at what it takes. It challenges players to realise the real work ahead. Gone are the days one rests on ones laurels or club reputation. (Actually i think those days were over years ago). The real work has just started. WL will be just one of many measures of progress.
With that all in mind, I think its time for a nice cold drink.
That'll make reading this site all the more entertaining. It's just a trial run for the kids. No more no less. Whilst the youngsters get exposure some of the seniors get exposed. This is gold for the development crew and selectors alike.
That's very much (part of) what Bolts said post-match.
The PS gives exposure to the youngsters, who otherwise only guess at what it takes. It challenges players to realise the real work ahead. Gone are the days one rests on ones laurels or club reputation. (Actually i think those days were over years ago). The real work has just started. WL will be just one of many measures of progress.
With that all in mind, I think its time for a nice cold drink.
That'll make reading this site all the more entertaining. It's just a trial run for the kids. No more no less. Whilst the youngsters get exposure some of the seniors get exposed. This is gold for the development crew and selectors alike.
Yes - whilst the last fortnight has been lousy, we should really be holding fire until a few weeks into the real season.
Bolts may say "it's about challenging the kids to hold on for more than a quarter and a bit", but what's the excuse for the more senior types' lack of performance? That they are simply crap and that he can't until the end of the year to shed more of them?
Bolts may say "it's about challenging the kids to hold on for more than a quarter and a bit", but what's the excuse for the more senior types' lack of performance? That they are simply crap and that he can't until the end of the year to shed more of them?
For our collective sanity, let's hope this is just a symptom of a deliberate "chilled attitude" to the pre season, and not a sign of what to expect for the rest of the year.
Most of us are already there.
No Simmo, Doc, Murph, Gibbs, Krooz. Today is a good reason why you don't play too many kids at once. Bolts stated in the after match comments :
"There's some young kids who couldn't hold on for more than a quarter and a half today, but we'll challenge them to do that.
"For them to get better, we need to expose them to develop them. Within that, we will challenge (the things) they need to improve on."
Think I'd like to win a quarter or two rather than " hang on".....
Look, don't throw the baby out with the bath water. We were ordinary today (something of an understatement), but we were missing most of our primary drivers. We were blooding young kids and it showed.
I was disappointed by some of the more senior players, but there were SOME good signs:
[1] Tom Williamson:
This kid is the youngest player on an AFL list at the moment. He had limited game time and looked good. I was impressed by his run and his ability with both feet.
He has a LONG way to go, he is only a kid, but he showed that he has a future.
[2] Harrison MacReadie:
This lad is still pretty raw, but he showed plenty. he has a nice mark and a nice kick. He looked like the guy I saw in 2015, the one filled with potential.
[3] Caleb Marchbank:
We made a good decision to get this guy. He will play a lot of games for us.
[4] Cameron Polson:
He was a boy sent out to do a man's job, and you could tell. But he wasn't that bad: everything he completed hit a target.
[5] Zac Fisher:
Look at the pace and the endeavour. He will be a player.
[6] Matt Korchek:
Particularly early in the game, he rucked pretty well. It was not his fault our midfield was getting smashed. he got his hand on the ball more often that a MUCH higher ranked opponent and did not allow him to have ANY influence around the ground.
This may not sound like much, but our other 'ruckman' was Sam Rowe, who should have been at FB. Rowe tried his guts out, but Longer had it all over him athletically at the centre bounce. Korchek did well in this area.
As for the rest:
Kerridge tried hard, but fumbles too much.
Ed Curnow got a bit of the ball, but was as ineffective as I have seen him.
Weitering looks to be warming up. He took 9 marks and did some nice things.
Plowman was OK, but not up to last year's form yet.
Armfield tried his guts out and did some nice things.
Smedts did better than I thought he would. He survived and will only get better.
Palmer needs some work, but was about as good as any of us got.
Buckley got injured early.
Boekhorst did a couple of nice things, but he doesn't do enough. I do not expect t see him on our list in 2018.
Nick Graham was not our worst, but he did struggle to have an impact.
Jed Lamb serious underperformed. He needs to do a LOT more to retain his spot.
Charlie Curnow: what was the lad doing? He did some really good things, then he tried to be Kouta, was caught and penalized. His kicking was woeful.
Simon White: for much of the day, he was one of our better players. However, he made more mistakes than usual, mostly just before he got injured.
Sam Rowe: exposed as a ruckman, he needs to play in a spot. Like FB.
Patrick Cripps: really off the pace and needed the run. He will be better for it.
Liam Jones tried hard, but we moved the ball so poorly that he had no chance. Even after he took mark of the day. He ended up in the ruck and struggled on Longer.
Harry McKay: get him on the kicking program now.
Bolton mentioned our "poor discipline". I thought we were good considering the BS umpiring today, the bloke who pinged White when he got hit high should be horse whipped.
Glad we chose to go to the NBs game today instead of the seniors! At least we saw a win and some pretty good footy for this time of the year. (NBs won by 11 pts).
Encouraging signs were sparse for the seniors today, though I thought Polson and Macreadie showed enough to suggest they'll be senior players. In fact I'd put Polson in front of Cuningham and Boekhorst (Lucas 2 and 3? ;)) at this stage. You'd think that C Curnow is going to be a ripper - hope the injury is not bad. Cripps will be better for the run.
Agree..MacReadie has a go and Polson will put his head over the ball.....we need to give Cunningham opportunities as we need his type of run and carry but so far he has been disappointing with his work rate IMO.
Lacks a bit of grunt and needs to pick up his intensity, not much from him in the 2nd effort dept...
Agree..MacReadie has a go and Polson will put his head over the ball.....we need to give Cunningham opportunities as we need his type of run and carry but so far he has been disappointing with his work rate IMO.
Lacks a bit of grunt and needs to pick up his intensity, not much from him in the 2nd effort dept...
We're on the same page here, EB1. Polson can actually weave and escape with the aggot, considering his limited game time he did really well. Like what I saw of he, MacReadie and Williamson. Cuningham is frustrating as he has the ability but as you rightly observe his second efforts are simply limp and this combined with a sad lack of intent/intensity is really disappointing.
Noticed this today - Has there ever been a list with less under 26 year old talent then us?
Reckon we have about 6 in this bracket tops, with 5-6 in the over 27 bracket.
We have a handful of promising kids (like every team had) but once Simmo and co hang up the boots there's very little sitting behind them.
Cripps Doc Weitering Plowman and Bryne then there's daylight.
It's the lack of young mids that worries me. After murph, Cripps and Gibbs, who is coming through??? Cunningham? Boekurst? I had hopes for summer, with a full preseason, but he is kicking dew at the moment. Where are our gun kids who can get 20 posses on a wing and look classy, every other team seems to have them. Hopefully Sam ps is as good as advertised!!! Those few poor drafts have really hurt us!!
It's the lack of young mids that worries me. After murph, Cripps and Gibbs, who is coming through??? Cunningham? Boekurst? I had hopes for summer, with a full preseason, but he is kicking dew at the moment. Where are our gun kids who can get 20 posses on a wing and look classy, every other team seems to have them. Hopefully Sam ps is as good as advertised!!! Those few poor drafts have really hurt us!!
Agree. ...we lack semi mature mids who can impact...Nick Graham isnt up to it...Kerridge disposal is C grade and Ed Curnow is a defensive mid only.
None of the young kids are close but I am hoping SPS can give us some class....Pickett has talent but seems to play in bursts and is more a forward at this stage IMO..
Really annoyed seeing Jack Steele run around for the Saints....really impressed me today and is exactly what we need to help Cripps....not sure what SOS was doing or thinking with regards Steele.
He would have been a high priority GWS player for me..
Really annoyed seeing Jack Steele run around for the Saints....really impressed me today and is exactly what we need to help Cripps....not sure what SOS was doing or thinking with regards Steele.
He would have been a high priority GWS player for me..
Mate me and you would have looked good running around with the Aints today against that opposition (or lack there of).
Bolton mentioned our "poor discipline". I thought we were good considering the BS umpiring today, the bloke who pinged White when he got hit high should be horse whipped.
Was that "poor discipline ' he was talking about related to the coaches? :o
Try this little exercise....go back to the opening post of the thread and have a look at the 29 man squad for this game,
Ask yourself how many of those players you think are "definite" selections for Round 1
I could only pick 8
I'd be tempted to play MacCreadie on a wing, given his height it might represent a point of difference. I don't like any of our other current options for the position.
Try this little exercise....go back to the opening post of the thread and have a look at the 29 man squad for this game,
Ask yourself how many of those players you think are "definite" selections for Round 1
I could only pick 8
Curnow
Curnow
Army
Weeters
Marchbank
Rowe
Kerridge
Cripps
Curnow
Curnow
Army
Weeters
Marchbank
Rowe
Kerridge
Cripps
Good luck selecting the other 13!
Curnow
Curnow
Army
Weeters
Marchbank
Rowe
Kerridge
Cripps
I'd have Plowman in there, but then it does start to get interesting.
We obviously went into the game with no intention of winning. BB is putting pressure on the new blokes to see who stands up
in dire situations.
And I reckon there was a few who now know they will need to pull the finger out if they want an AFL future.
From now on nobody will be given a game unless they show something.
Same as last year when blokes like Smith, Jaksch, DVR etc weren't getting a senior gig because they were doing buggar all in the VFL.
No free games. Earn your spot or play VFL.
Curnow
Curnow
Army
Weeters
Marchbank
Rowe
Kerridge
Cripps
Yep pretty much it...except I also had Plowman in and Armfield just out....but he should probably play so that gives us nine.
Good luck selecting the other 13!
It's really only about 5-6 (injuries permitting)
Gibbs
Docherty
Murphy
Simpson
Casboult
Silvagni
Kreuzer
Wright
(Given Cripps only played 39% of yesterdays game you could just about drop him into the didn't play list :D)
I'd be tempted to play MacCreadie on a wing, given his height it might represent a point of difference. I don't like any of our other current options for the position.
I thought young Harrison played quite well and showed a lot of promise. We may have made very good use of Pick 47 :)
Any word on Charlie's shoulder? That's my biggest fear from yesterday.
One thing that gets my goat is that this mob are touching us up every time. I reckon some of it is average coaching as well. Next time somebody needs to sit on Jack Stevens, fair dinkum, he gets 40 possessions every time he plays us. If it happens again I'd be questioning Bolton's match day acumen.
From the reports on the NBs I'd not be surprised to find if he gets through another game that Sheehan in the mix. Another good game from Jaksch and he could go past some of our other tall forward options.
Le Bois could be a surprise in ahead of Pickett and Wright.
So in alphabetical order with 22 + Emergencies;
Automatics:
Casboult
Docherty
Gibbs
Kreuzer
Murphy
Silvagni
Simpson
Wright
JLT Game 2:
Armfield
Cripps
Curnow
Curnow
Cunningham
Graham
Kerridge
Marchbank
Palmer
Plowman
Rowe
Smedts
Thomas
Weitering
NBs Practice:
Jaksch
Le Bois ( If no then put Pickett in above.)
Sheehan
Did Not Play:
Gorringe
There is a glaring problem with this list, the ruck.
We have Kreuzer and ..............NADA!
But of course we have too many AFL ruckmen on our list, lets offload a few! ;)
But of course we have too many AFL ruckmen on our list, lets offload a few! ;)
Not sure where you keep getting this from. I can't think of anyone who said we have had too many ruckmen.
I've been saying we need to add more to the list.
As for offloading them...in recent history we've only 'offloaded' Warnock and Wood....both of which have actuaally retired.
At one stage in the past(2008) our ruck list read like this;
Cloke, Kreuzer ......Hampson ........A. O'hAilpin
++ Ackland, S. O'hAilpin
Keep in mind we didn't need hybrid Ruck/KPFs, we had Fevola and Waite holding down KPs with support from Setanta and Ackland.
We added Jacobs to that list at the end of 2009 when Aisake left and we de-listed Ackland. The list still looked good and had some depth.
now it's,
Kreuzer..........Phillips......................?????
++ Casboult, Gorringe, Rowe, McKay(Just a baby)
It's pretty feeble, and has no depth.
Back in 2008, Kreuzer and Ackland were the equivalent of Phillips but we cannot say Casboult and Gorringe come even close to being useful 2nd or 3rd ruck options. Cloke held his own in 2008 as 1st Ruck, with Kreuzer as significant support!
Casboult and Gorringe won't support Kreuzer much at all in the absence of Phillips which leaves Rowe!
We haven't taken the ruck seriously for almost a decade now, but you won't win finals without a serious ruck division, even more so now the 3rd man up is kiboshed. Yet I still read posters claiming we have too many rucks.
We don't have too many rucks as you well know because Casboult and Gorring are miles away from being serious ruck options, they are basically below average KPFs that squeeze their way into the side by doubling as a very poor chop out for the 1st rucks.
The one single incident that worried me the most was when Harry mcKay had the set shot for goal after the siren (end of 1st 1/4 i think). Approx 50m out and it fell 10m short. I wasn't confident he would kick the goal but was expecting it to land pretty close to the goal line.
He's a big boy who i was expecting to be able to kick better than than. Maybe he just didn't strike it cleanly but i would have been less concerned if he had shanked it.
The one single incident that worried me the most was when Harry mcKay had the set shot for goal after the siren (end of 1st 1/4 i think). Approx 50m out and it fell 10m short. I wasn't confident he would kick the goal but was expecting it to land pretty close to the goal line.
He's a big boy who i was expecting to be able to kick better than than. Maybe he just didn't strike it cleanly but i would have been less concerned if he had shanked it.
With kids it can be fatigue setting in as their legs are just not use to the AFL running load, the lactic acid builds up very quickly and they lose power. That is bad enough for a débutante, but keep in mind this kid has lost a significant chunk of development because of his lower back problems.
We won't see his true worth for 2 or 3 years, he won't gain much more this year now that pre-season is over. For the rest of this year I'd hope he builds running capacity and game sense, but it'll be all muscle waste from here on in. Unless of course you play for CheatsFC!
Didn't mind this article.
http://www.fansunite.com.au/2017/03/05/48946/look-up-the-word-in-a-dictionary
Didn't mind this article.
http://www.fansunite.com.au/2017/03/05/48946/look-up-the-word-in-a-dictionary
It's a good article, especially when discussing the motives of media types.
Yes, a practice match - a chance for us to practice losing. In fact we have had so much practice we are pretty good at it.
Didn't mind this article.
http://www.fansunite.com.au/2017/03/05/48946/look-up-the-word-in-a-dictionary
Exactly. We once won two Preseason Cups in three years then went on to finish last and second last in the season proper those years. Its meaningless, they are praccy matches.
Didn't mind this article.
http://www.fansunite.com.au/2017/03/05/48946/look-up-the-word-in-a-dictionary
I take that on board Jim, but as I posted before, my main worry is the reported lack of effort/intensity during the two games so far. I would feel a hell of a lot better if we had shown this even if we had made errors and lost the games. Maybe there are good explanations for this approach, but IMO it perpetuates our losing culture which we desperately need to fix. However, as the article states, we don't know the true inside info as to what BB and his guys are up to.
I take that on board Jim, but as I posted before, my main worry is the reported lack of effort/intensity during the two games so far. I would feel a hell of a lot better if we had shown this even if we had made errors and lost the games. Maybe there are good explanations for this approach, but IMO it perpetuates our losing culture which we desperately need to fix. However, as the article states, we don't know the true inside info as to what BB and his guys are up to.
Cookie I feel your pain but I honestly think we will play better in the season proper (at least I pray we do ;D). I think testing various things and training loads are reasons for us looking lacklustre. I am not suggesting for a minute we will make the 8, top 4, play off in a GF or win the thing, just that I think a pattern has developed in the last 2 years with how we have approached the PS comp/Praccy matches and so I'll just wait and see and settle in for the ride (bumpy as it may be).
I have said it before and Ill say it again and again, anyone who thought a new coaching and list management team was going to come in and "right the ship" in 1 or 2 years from the mess we were/are in is delusional.
I take that on board Jim, but as I posted before, my main worry is the reported lack of effort/intensity during the two games so far. I would feel a hell of a lot better if we had shown this even if we had made errors and lost the games. Maybe there are good explanations for this approach, but IMO it perpetuates our losing culture which we desperately need to fix. However, as the article states, we don't know the true inside info as to what BB and his guys are up to.
I'm old enough to watch years of bloody awful practice match form only for us to win flags. Remember when David Parkin first coached us in 1981. We produced 3 of the most horrible practice matches leading up to that season to the point he was worried. A player told him not to worry about that as it's normal, it'll all change round 1. It sure did. I know we're not exactly the super side we were then, to be stating the obvious, but it does tell us not to take pre-season form seriously. From memory, didn't we lose by 100pts to Essendon pre-season in 1995?
Practice matches are exactly that.
However, it doesn't mean that what occurs in them gives no insight into what the season ahead could be like.
A team can lose, and have it not mean anything.
But a team can lose, and have it actually mean something.
If an U15's club went out and lost a practice match against the saints, sure, the loss itself doesn't mean anything.
However, the fact that they were not fast enough, fit enough, ferocious enough and their skill level was not up to par does give you some insight into how they might go in the regular season.
That is what people are worried about.
Our kids are just not up to AFL standard with their decision making, discipline, aggression and fitness level.
Our ruck stocks are thin.
Our key forward stocks are thin.
Our effort has been lacking.
So sure the result means little.
The above revelations do.
From memory, didn't we lose by 100pts to Essendon pre-season in 1995?
I think that's true, but the current list doesn't look like this!
FB: Michael Sexton Stephen Silvagni Ang Christou
HB: Matthew Hogg Peter Dean Andrew McKay
C: Milham Hanna Brett Ratten Anthony Koutoufides
HF: Dean Rice Earl Spalding Matt Clape
F: Greg Williams Stephen Kernahan (c) Brad Pearce
Foll: Justin Madden Craig Bradley Fraser Brown
Int: Scott Camporeale Adrian Whitehead Glenn Manton
Most of them were permitted an easy pre-season, they had very little to prove. :D
Think of who missed out in that GF, Mitchell, Gleeson, O'Sullivan, Allan, Beaumont, De Iulio, Bond, Heaver.
Fraser probably would have cleaned up half the current list just to get them out of his way!
I remember Parkin after the 1999 Grand Final, he said something like Fraser Brown had nothing left to give and probably should not have played. But Fraser gave Carlton the greatest gift of all in the Preliminary Final. FWIW, it should feature on the Carlton website as a reminder to all those who choose to cruise. It's probably true, Fraser's tank was probably empty, but he never made the decision to cruise in that PF, as John Kennedy said he chose to "just do something!"
Practice matches are exactly that.
However, it doesn't mean that what occurs in them gives no insight into what the season ahead could be like.
A team can lose, and have it not mean anything.
But a team can lose, and have it actually mean something.
If an U15's club went out and lost a practice match against the saints, sure, the loss itself doesn't mean anything.
However, the fact that they were not fast enough, fit enough, ferocious enough and their skill level was not up to par does give you some insight into how they might go in the regular season.
That is what people are worried about.
Our kids are just not up to AFL standard with their decision making, discipline, aggression and fitness level.
Our ruck stocks are thin.
Our key forward stocks are thin.
Our effort has been lacking.
So sure the result means little.
The above revelations do.
Plenty of merit there.
We know 1, 2 and 3 we have issues.
4th the effort can lack in pre-season games as long as that doesn't occur round 1. If it does then we have real issues worse than any of the three above.
If nothing else, win, lose or draw, you should use the pre-season games to assess and get some psychological advantage over your direct opponent.
That's what Aint Kilda did yesterday. ;)
Probably from our perspective, The Aints know they can't catch Pickett, so if and when he gets fit, strong and durable enough to play a full game he's going to hurt a lot of teams. Make no mistake, they tried like hell to catch him yesterday and failed.
Fischer showed signs as well, but I worry about his style of game relative to his size at AFL level.
OK guys, I will reserve further judgement and comment about our prospects until after the R1 game! :)
OK guys, I will reserve further judgement and comment about our prospects until after the R1 game! :)
I'll be waiting until R5 or 6 before really assessing where we're at.
Dimma reckons he was too strict last season, with his rules, structures etc. Apparently this season he will be releasing the shackles - his mantra is "Just Play". If they go all out attack, it will really test our defensive set ups and personnel.
Whatever happens, I'm guessing that Spanner and the Big Boss will have to double their server capacity. Should be a bumper year for CSC.
I'll be waiting until R5 or 6 before really assessing where we're at.
Dimma reckons he was too strict last season, with his rules, structures etc. Apparently this season he will be releasing the shackles - his mantra is "Just Play". If they go all out attack, it will really test our defensive set ups and personnel.
Whatever happens, I'm guessing that Spanner and the Big Boss will have to double their server capacity. Should be a bumper year for CSC.
Paul, I will be focused on our effort and intensity and there will be no excuse IMO for that not being evident R1. The other stuff e.g. knowledge of the game plan, skills, decision making etc. make take a bit longer I agree.
Paul, I will be focused on our effort and intensity and there will be no excuse IMO for that not being evident R1. The other stuff e.g. knowledge of the game plan, skills, decision making etc. make take a bit longer I agree.
Fair points cookie.
It was the lack of intensity and effort from many of the mid tier players that really concerned me yesterday. These are guys who would think are fighting for a place in the team in R1 and didn't fire a shot. I'm talking about guys like Boek, Graham & Lamb who we need as the link players and should be good users of the ball who had zero impact on the game. And don't get me started on Thomas - zero tackles from the senior pro yesterday and a guy who sets a terrible example for the young guys in terms of not putting his body on the line. We all know Jones is a highlight reel player only - yesterday is just another classic example.
I'm not worried [yet] about the young guys, and some of them showed some good signs albeit glimpses only. Fisher and McKay both look to me like they need a fair bit of time in the NB's before they are ready for senior action. Marchbank looks a standout, and Macreadie did some nice things as well.
The other thing that stood out like proverbials yesterday is just how bad our field kicking is. Curnow, Kerridge and Palmer are ok at getting ball, but their efficiency by foot is terrible and they had 12 clangers between them. If your mids cannot keep hold of the ball then you are going to get blow off the park on turnover.
sbf, re the kicking, this has been one of my many bugaboos for ages. I'll quote from a 2012 Rob walls article :
"Ratten has a back line that can't kick over a jam tin. So he has to play Heath Scotland, Chris Yarran and Bryce Gibbs back there. Someone needs to stamp ''KICKING SKILLS'' on the foreheads of Carlton's recruiters because half the list is substandard by foot."
@SBF
The players you are describing here SBF are mediocre and not what we need to build our future on. They will not significantly improve let alone reach AFL standard.
We have to put up with them though for another year, unfortunately, as part of our rebuild but I'm hoping that their bad habits don't rub off on to our younger players. So we should be using them as little as possible. A fair swag of them should be sent on their way again this year as we progress the rebuild.
Remember that SOS has his hands tied somewhat with some of our problem players because of contracts offered before he came to Carlton, namely Thomas, Jones, Jaksch, there's probably more
Whilst it doesn't help us ac CFC supporters, Daisy was actually a very good kick of the footy in his Pie days.
I thought young Harrison played quite well and showed a lot of promise. We may have made very good use of Pick 47 :)
The kid was touted as top 5 till GWS moved him north and he didn't respond well in his final year.....
knows how to play mid too....
Looked good, but patchy as you would expect. He and Polson were the positives out of yesterday's game for me
Looked good, but patchy as you would expect. He and Polson were the positives out of yesterday's game for me
Yes, I thought Polson showed a bit too. At one point I thought, "Wow, that's Thomas back to his best!" then realised that it was 29, not 39 ...
You know sometimes you get a first glimpse of kid, and it might not be anything really special that he does, but you get the feeling that "here is a player."
I haven't paid a lot of attention to "who has what number" at the moment...I don't even remember what it was that caught my eye yesterday...but it was something that had me reaching for the team list to check out who number 29 was. ;)
Remember that SOS has his hands tied somewhat with some of our problem players because of contracts offered before he came to Carlton, namely Thomas, Jones, Jaksch, there's probably more
All too painfully true JB. Most of those such problems should be resolved in time for this year's list management activities.
Cookie I feel your pain but I honestly think we will play better in the season proper (at least I pray we do ;D). I think testing various things and training loads are reasons for us looking lacklustre. I am not suggesting for a minute we will make the 8, top 4, play off in a GF or win the thing, just that I think a pattern has developed in the last 2 years with how we have approached the PS comp/Praccy matches and so I'll just wait and see and settle in for the ride (bumpy as it may be).
I have said it before and Ill say it again and again, anyone who thought a new coaching and list management team was going to come in and "right the ship" in 1 or 2 years from the mess we were/are in is delusional.
My sentiments too. Well said GIC.
We gave kids a trial to prime the mind. Saints went about it against kids as you would expect. We gain when there's nothing at stake. They practice for the real deal.
For mine we're still assembling the ingredients (discarding what's out of date).
On the other hand, they are preparing the icing ^-^
Go new Blues
I agree with most others on the downside of yesterday's practice. That being how inefficient and lacking intensity (and thereby leadership) our seniors were.
The upside. Polson and McCreadie showed glimpses. Fischer and big H backed up glimpses. When in position, big MK's ruck work was solid relative to his mord experienced opponent. The optimist in me says he'll make it. Particularly if he can plant himself near goals occasionally and kick a goal or two. Pickett also backed up reasonably given his return from injury.
As such, I'm quietly excited. Imagine what Pickett will bring injury free and with his aerobic capacity up to speed. Speed. That's what. He could really be a boost in our scoring stakes. He knows where the goals are and appears confident, or at least unperturbed by the monsters. Just hope this spreads to his teammates :)
Not sure where to put this so I'll put it here!
Went to the NBs game this morning. Few comments:
Firstly, NBs 10.13.73 def Sandy 8.14.62.
Of the NBs listed blokes liked: Sam Russell, Strachan, Luke Russell, Stevens, Pearce, Glover and McCabe. Who the hell is Angus Milham, the new ruckman... seemed about 20ft tall! Did alright too.
NBs seemed well organised and hard at it. Impressed. Led most of the day and a couple of late ones flattered Sandy.
JGM injured early. Sumner injured early also so not much to say about those two!
I thought the best of the 6 NBs listed players ( remember 2 out early injured!) were Sheehan, Jaksch (yes, he was working hard!!!!) and kicked a few goals and Le Bois. Gus was a rock in defense and his disposal skills were great - wrapped to see him get through and look good. Jaksch surprised but remember this is pre season and Sandy weren't great but credit given where it's due - he marked, competed and kicked well. Le Bois kicked another brilliant goal on the wrong angle for a left footer, he didn't figure a lot in the game but what he did was good and very encouraging.
Kerr? Let's just say there is an enormous amount of room for improvement!
Thanks Baggers
None & 2, horrific %, bottom of the ladder. Get rid of Murphy, Gibbs and Kreuzer and the coach is no good.
Maybe the club has plans and strategies that we don't know about.
Personally I couldn't give a rats until there are 4 points up for grabs.
Was at the game and could only manage 3/4 but one thing that struck me was our time in possession or lack of. We basically chased leather from halfway thru the first - no wonder the kids were knackered.
Cripps looked good early, with lots of young kids showing they have the tools albeit without much time with ball in hand - apart from the defenders. Macreadie and Williamson looked good, as did Cunningham I thought. Oh and picket too. Apart from that there wasn't much to smile at unfortunately - skill errors all over the park, not horrific but just a few cms either way or where it needed to be. Saints were running on top of the ground but doubt they'd play so carefree in the real stuff.
Forward line was a shambles, not enough kicking to players on the lead, too many pack contests from wing, hf and inside the 50. Harry has good dukes seems confident and got into a scuffle, just needs more time and experience.
While we have guys like Kerridge, White, Thomas and Armfield playing in the 1's, we are going to struggle. Kerridge has been disappointing for mine. This time last year I was really excited by what he could offer as a bona-fide AFL midfielder. For mine, he's either a medium sized marking and hard working half-forward type, or nothing at AFL level. Reckon he ain't an AFL midfielder's bootlace.
Loved the zip of some of the younger boys clearly trying to impress. They just needed more support from our more senior guys, who had to lead the way more than they did.
Awful, just awful skill errors. Many from the older guys.
Not sold on Billie Smedts. Still time and still young, like Sam Kerridge.
Reckon David Cuningham has to play as part of our AFL midfield rotations. Like him.
Liked the look of Fisher again and Polson. Great intent, and quite clean with their hands. Macreadie looked good too. Williamson ok too, but needs to learn to kick off more than one step, as do some others!
Some sprouts, as Bolts would say.
how did Nick Graham go? He's another on the fringe type that probably wouldn't get a spot on most senior AFL lists?
Your observations match mine Pratty, terribly disappointed with Kerridge, looks slow, fumbly and disposal is awful... what has happened to that goal kicker he was at the Crows? Perhaps we just don't generate the clean ball in F50 that provides such opportunities that he had there, but have questions as to his role and position at Senior level.
Your observations match mine Pratty, terribly disappointed with Kerridge, looks slow, fumbly and disposal is awful... what has happened to that goal kicker he was at the Crows? Perhaps we just don't generate the clean ball in F50 that provides such opportunities that he had there, but have questions as to his role and position at Senior level.
Maybe he knows he's on the fringe selection wise and the pressure is telling. His goal kicking was a real potential point of differentiation.....
Those mid types well ahead of him imo - Curnow, Murph, Gibbs, SPS, Pickett, Wright.
Those he's a toss up with - Fisher, Sumner, Cuningham, Army, Boekhurst, Graham and arguably Polson, Macreadie. LeBois?
Would like to see Plowman given some time in the guts too.....everyone's bleating about lack of big bodies.....
Maybe he knows he's on the fringe selection wise and the pressure is telling. His goal kicking was a real potential point of differentiation.....
Those mid types well ahead of him imo - Curnow, Murph, Gibbs, SPS, Pickett, Wright.
Those he's a toss up with - Fisher, Sumner, Cuningham, Army, Boekhurst, Graham and arguably Polson, Macreadie. LeBois?
Would like to see Plowman given some time in the guts too.....everyone's bleating about lack of big bodies.....
Boekhorst is a big disappointment for me, this is a guy who looks to have the skills and smarts but isn't capable of dealing with the physicality of AFL. I suppose he won't be on his lonesome in this regard.
If we could make a half Robinson/Boekhorst clone, with the good halves, we'd be sweet to go!
Noticed Sheehan was in our best 3 in the NB on Saturday. Always liked the look of him - Tough, straight runner with a booming accurate left boot.
Since we have a lot of cover down back anyone think this guy could be coached to play HF.
I mean after all we gave Watson 4 years to prove himself based on a big left foot and not much else - Sheehan seems a more natural footballer - plus as a big solid lad wont be easy to move off the ball. Could be dangerous with the ball in his hands within 60
Not suggesting he will be a permanent forward but we need some excitement and some protection for young Curnow, SOS and McKay and I reckon he can provide that as a min.
Considering the lack of big forward options worth a shot I reckon.
shawny, If he's a half decent set shot, I'd be happy to try that for a few games, and see how it goes.
@shawny
The glimpses I've seen of Gussy I like. I think his body (when healthy) looks like the 'hard to tackle or stop' build. Gary Ablett type. Broad base close to ground zero with a strong core. Add a tough competitive spirit and you've got some good qualities to work with. He likes to run too. At best he could be one of the tough bodies we desperately need in the middle. But that's Carlton dreaming.... ::) the reality is we have needs everywhere but down back.
Its not a bad idea. Worth a go when he's up to it. Go ahead. Get the memo to Bolts ;)
While we have guys like Kerridge, White, Thomas and Armfield playing in the 1's, we are going to struggle. Kerridge has been disappointing for mine. This time last year I was really excited by what he could offer as a bona-fide AFL midfielder. For mine, he's either a medium sized marking and hard working half-forward type, or nothing at AFL level. Reckon he ain't an AFL midfielder's bootlace.
Loved the zip of some of the younger boys clearly trying to impress. They just needed more support from our more senior guys, who had to lead the way more than they did.
Awful, just awful skill errors. Many from the older guys.
Not sold on Billie Smedts. Still time and still young, like Sam Kerridge.
Reckon David Cuningham has to play as part of our AFL midfield rotations. Like him.
Liked the look of Fisher again and Polson. Great intent, and quite clean with their hands. Macreadie looked good too. Williamson ok too, but needs to learn to kick off more than one step, as do some others!
Some sprouts, as Bolts would say.
All of that is spot on ;)
shawny, If he's a half decent set shot, I'd be happy to try that for a few games, and see how it goes.
Not only that but he's a solid unit. Really think he would protect the kids at the very least.
Surely this is what a club like us use the JLT series on - or we could try Liam Jones up forward ::).
We still love to beat dead horses......
Boekhorst is a big disappointment for me, this is a guy who looks to have the skills and smarts but isn't capable of dealing with the physicality of AFL. I suppose he won't be on his lonesome in this regard.
If we could make a half Robinson/Boekhorst clone, with the good halves, we'd be sweet to go!
Lets face it, Boeky was a huge mistake. Other recruiters and teams all literally laughed when we picked him. I think we wanted him to make it out of desperation and save face but it wont happen. If we took a punt on him with a pick in the 30s, 40s or 50s? It wouldnt have been so bad. But pick 19? The guy who the rising star and a premiership was picked at 46, sadly Boeky would tie his boot laces.
Lets face it, Boeky was a huge mistake. Other recruiters and teams all literally laughed when we picked him. I think we wanted him to make it out of desperation and save face but it wont happen. If we took a punt on him with a pick in the 30s, 40s or 50s? It wouldnt have been so bad. But pick 19? The guy who the rising star and a premiership was picked at 46, sadly Boeky would tie his boot laces.
Hopefully we'll be in position to ditch most of the remaining dead wood this year. Boy it's been a nightmare!
Lets face it, Boeky was a huge mistake. Other recruiters and teams all literally laughed when we picked him. I think we wanted him to make it out of desperation and save face but it wont happen. If we took a punt on him with a pick in the 30s, 40s or 50s? It wouldnt have been so bad. But pick 19? The guy who the rising star and a premiership was picked at 46, sadly Boeky would tie his boot laces.
I want all our players to make it. Boeky seems like this years version of Kane Lucas - has wheels and a bit of silk, and that's pretty much it.
Hopefully we'll be in position to ditch most of the remaining dead wood this year. Boy it's been a nightmare!
Amazingly I think we have at least another 10 that are gone at years end.
Has there ever been a rebuild by other club which emptied the cupboard like us?
Amazingly I think we have at least another 10 that are gone at years end.
7
12
13
14
18
27
32
39
43
7
12
13
14
18
27
32
39
43
Probably getting right off topic here. But add to your list our free agents, come year's end.
6
8
27
41
43
Lets face it, Boeky was a huge mistake. Other recruiters and teams all literally laughed when we picked him. I think we wanted him to make it out of desperation and save face but it wont happen. If we took a punt on him with a pick in the 30s, 40s or 50s? It wouldnt have been so bad. But pick 19? The guy who the rising star and a premiership was picked at 46, sadly Boeky would tie his boot laces.
x2..Our own Crashlander said he was only rookie material or a late pick at best...and the same Crash was all over Caleb Daniel.....our previous recruiters were possibly the worst in the history of the modern game...
x2..Our own Crashlander said he was only rookie material or a late pick at best...and the same Crash was all over Caleb Daniel.....our previous recruiters were possibly the worst in the history of the modern game...
EFA
I spat it on this site when Boekhorst was recruited. Has never looked liked he wanted it badly enough and has never adapted to the more physical nature of senior AFL footy as opposed to the WAFL.
Meanwhile the bloke many of us were screaming to recruit at 19 - Laverde - hasn't set the house on fire but he at least is a chance to make it.
Instead of Laverde we targeted his teammate, Viojo-Rainbow. Another wipe out. Reminds me of when we drafted Damian Lock and WCE took his teammate Micheal Braun with the next pick. Who exactly were our recruiters watching at these U18 games?
Hindsight is wonderful, should have kept the pick and grabbed two metre Peter or Marchbank in the first place.
I spat it on this site when Boekhorst was recruited. Has never looked liked he wanted it badly enough and has never adapted to the more physical nature of senior AFL footy as opposed to the WAFL.
Meanwhile the bloke many of us were screaming to recruit at 19 - Laverde - hasn't set the house on fire but he at least is a chance to make it.
Instead of Laverde we targeted his teammate, Viojo-Rainbow. Another wipe out. Reminds me of when we drafted Damian Lock and WCE took his teammate Micheal Braun with the next pick. Who exactly were our recruiters watching at these U18 games?
Hindsight is wonderful, should have kept the pick and grabbed two metre Peter or Marchbank in the first place.
Do you blame the blame or the system?
Our development structures/systems/programs have been massive duds for so long now it barely gets talked about.....
I spat it on this site when Boekhorst was recruited. Has never looked liked he wanted it badly enough and has never adapted to the more physical nature of senior AFL footy as opposed to the WAFL.
Meanwhile the bloke many of us were screaming to recruit at 19 - Laverde - hasn't set the house on fire but he at least is a chance to make it.
Instead of Laverde we targeted his teammate, Viojo-Rainbow. Another wipe out. Reminds me of when we drafted Damian Lock and WCE took his teammate Micheal Braun with the next pick. Who exactly were our recruiters watching at these U18 games?
Hindsight is wonderful, should have kept the pick and grabbed two metre Peter or Marchbank in the first place.
Think Laverde had three goals in the Bombers first JLT game.....Boekhorst was a gamble that went wrong, the physicality of the AFL has proven too much for him.....
Think Laverde had three goals in the Bombers first JLT game.....Boekhorst was a gamble that went wrong, the physicality of the AFL has proven too much for him.....
You're right, will probably be top line VFL or WAFL footballer, just not up to the rigours of AFL.
Hopefully we'll be in position to ditch most of the remaining dead wood this year. Boy it's been a nightmare!
Yeah, it'll be great to have a list free of deadwood... ????
I spat it on this site when Boekhorst was recruited. Has never looked liked he wanted it badly enough and has never adapted to the more physical nature of senior AFL footy as opposed to the WAFL.
Meanwhile the bloke many of us were screaming to recruit at 19 - Laverde - hasn't set the house on fire but he at least is a chance to make it.
Instead of Laverde we targeted his teammate, Viojo-Rainbow. Another wipe out. Reminds me of when we drafted Damian Lock and WCE took his teammate Micheal Braun with the next pick. Who exactly were our recruiters watching at these U18 games?
Hindsight is wonderful, should have kept the pick and grabbed two metre Peter or Marchbank in the first place.
For every one of the 'why didn't we get player x' there is a 'cant believe we got player y at that pick!'
Cripps was taken at pick 13.
Besides Boyd at 1, and maybe Bont at 4...every other team will be kicking themselves for missing out on him.
Jack Silvagni was pick 50+
etc
Cripps was a great selection, who picked him?
Cripps was a great selection, who picked him?
A wise old man told me even a broken watch is right once a day.
I know he's a contested beast, and I know he's one of our current pin up boys, but the deficiencies in his game still worry me a little. Specifically his kicking and his lack of pace. In a side with below average kicking, his issues don't stand out so much (also combined with the fact that he rarely Kicks). But in a team like the Hawks, it would really stand out.
If he was surrounded by players who were good kicks, I wouldn't worry so much.
And just to be clear, I'm happy he's one of us, and if I was doing team selection, I would pick him first or second every week.
I know he's a contested beast, and I know he's one of our current pin up boys, but the deficiencies in his game still worry me a little. Specifically his kicking and his lack of pace. In a side with below average kicking, his issues don't stand out so much (also combined with the fact that he rarely Kicks). But in a team like the Hawks, it would really stand out.
If he was surrounded by players who were good kicks, I wouldn't worry so much.
And just to be clear, I'm happy he's one of us, and if I was doing team selection, I would pick him first or second every week.
He's very good at getting possession of the ball so I would too.
For every one of the 'why didn't we get player x' there is a 'cant believe we got player y at that pick!'
Cripps was taken at pick 13.
Besides Boyd at 1, and maybe Bont at 4...every other team will be kicking themselves for missing out on him.
Jack Silvagni was pick 50+
etc
If it was 50/50 I'd be rapped, but we are miles away from that.
The numbers are appalling- in 2014 we made 13 trades & picks. 2 years later 10 are gone and the other 3 (jones, jaksch and boek) are most likely gone at year end on exposed form. So that's a likely 0% from that cohort - that is almost statistically impossible over such a short timeframe and gives you a good understanding of why we still have years of pain ahead of us.
I agree we have had some luck, especially with the rookie draft, but it doesn't go near making up for our 10 or so years of rubbish recruiting. We have used our first pick on so many soft, lazy or mentally fragile footballers it's incredible when you go through the list.
Holy smoke that's disastrous. Was that the Rodgers era?
sbf
rapt, not rapped.
LN
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/carlton-has-parted-ways-with-former-national-recruiting-manager-wayne-hughes-following-restructure/news-story/70206d59688092d1b90627e35adc30ef
Rogers really Rogered us.
If I recall correctly, it was Hughes that targeted and identified Cripps from a long way out.
sbf
rapt, not rapped.
LN
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/carlton-has-parted-ways-with-former-national-recruiting-manager-wayne-hughes-following-restructure/news-story/70206d59688092d1b90627e35adc30ef
Rogers really Rogered us.
Well that was a lightning fast answer to my queries Paul. It's like having a research assistant on board ^-^
Thankyou.
I'm a bit confused about the Rodgers-Hughes relationship to be honest. End of the day and I'm tired. I gather rogers wasn't the only one who rogered us....
On that wasn't Hughes (or was it Rogers) mm's right hand for a while??
If I recall correctly, it was Hughes that targeted and identified Cripps from a long way out.
Fire enough shots and you have to hit something..... ;)
Of all the kids Hughes called out I reckon Cripps wanted it more than most of them, thus he managed to bypass our "development system" (i.e. something we don't have) and essentially made himself a player. Internal drive is a big factor in whether or not these kids succeed IMO.
If I recall correctly, it was Hughes that targeted and identified Cripps from a long way out.
Pretty sure that was me. ;)