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1
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: AFL Rd 18 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane
Last post by PaulP -
Quote from: pinot – on
List isnt the problem - it's drilling a squad.

Chris Scott has drilled Geelong - no matter who is in or out they are drilled as a squad.
Chris Fagan has drilled Brisbane
Craig McRae has drilled Collingwood
Sam Mitchell has drilled Hawthorn
Adam Kingsley has drilled GWS
Hardwick has drilled GCS,

What do these coaches have in common?

They were not re employed after getting sacked.

Lyon, Brad Scott, Clarkson is banana territory

Longmuir is just an awful coach like Buckley.

This isn't IMO a good argument. By this logic, the only viable candidates for senior coach are first timers or coaches that left previous clubs of their own accord.

Dogmatic beliefs rely on skewed perspectives and cherry picking data. Our greatest ever coach was sacked 4 times, including being reappointed at Carlton for a second stint, by a fair number of the same board, President, Vice President etc that sacked him in the first place.
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Robert Heatley Stand / Re: VFL Rd 15 2025 Carlton vs Collingwood
Last post by Micky0 -
Quote from: Baggers – on
I guess it's natural (I do it!) to look only at the senior listed players in the Magoos and how they're doing, with in mind who to elevate to the seniors.

However, what is very apparent with our Magoos side is a unity. They seem to love their footy, whether VFL or AFL listed. And they don't surrender or drop their heads. Cudos to Luke P and his team.

Luke's job is real hard, he has little continuity of selection, every week he is hobbling together a group, and they all seem to buy in.

Reading Luke's comments post game it is very apparent that he reads the game well and doesn't hesitate to swing changes, which mostly seem to work. Reading between the lines, there seems to be an egalitarianism in his leadership style; he doesn't favour anyone in his comments. Any wonder there is a positive spirit with the boys.

His lads have a huge assignment this week, Brisvegas, who are 4 rungs above his boys on the Magoos ladder.
The VFL game was 100x more enjoyable to watch than the AFL game!

There was camaraderie and desire - watching the campo boys, saw some leadership already.

Binns after the game was asked re
Vossys spray and he said Voss has been very good for him and they had the conversation  necessary etc - seemed sincere.

The camaraderie is 100% missing in the snr side
3
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: VFL Rd 15 2025 Carlton vs Collingwood
Last post by Baggers -
I guess it's natural (I do it!) to look only at the senior listed players in the Magoos and how they're doing, with in mind who to elevate to the seniors.

However, what is very apparent with our Magoos side is a unity. They seem to love their footy, whether VFL or AFL listed. And they don't surrender or drop their heads. Cudos to Luke P and his team.

Luke's job is real hard, he has little continuity of selection, every week he is hobbling together a group, and they all seem to buy in.

Reading Luke's comments post game it is very apparent that he reads the game well and doesn't hesitate to swing changes, which mostly seem to work. Reading between the lines, there seems to be an egalitarianism in his leadership style; he doesn't favour anyone in his comments. Any wonder there is a positive spirit with the boys.

His lads have a huge assignment this week, Brisvegas, who are 4 rungs above his boys on the Magoos ladder.
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Robert Heatley Stand / Re: AFL Rd 18 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane
Last post by Lods -
It was a while ago and training and sports medicine has advanced but probably the stand out example was Kouta who was never the same player after injury.
Like most things it is individual specific as to how injuries compound and affect performance...and how people recover.

I'm saying that as they age and injuries compound it will mean that over a time players reach a point where their best is behind them.
I'm pretty certain we've reached that point with Docherty. I suspect it's the same with Saad. Whether it's the same with others is a wait and see...My gut feeling is that of our players who were once considered the best in their positions not all if any will reach those levels again...there are no guarantees either way. But it doesn't mean they can't still be very good valuable players until their inevitable time comes.
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Robert Heatley Stand / Re: AFL Rd 18 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane
Last post by Thryleon -
Quote from: Lods – on
Quote from: Thryleon – on
sorry lods I just want to say that injuries and dealing with them are part good management, part rehab, part preparation, part attitude, part patience and mostly a little luck.

1I've never met an injured bloke cut down and not capable of playing at the elite level ever again no matter the column of their injuries, they usually run out of time before they run out of lives.  Weiters has barely had a real problem.  Harry has had more issue with concussion than his body.  Charlie is unique.  He's showing the ability he used to have but his form is poor and second efforts absent.  More conditioning IMHO.  once conditioning goes optimum performance is harder to achieve but it can come back.

Pros come back from injuries in every code.  It might be we need some of these guys spending more time rehabbing and playing rather than doing any real training but only a solid pre season affords that capability.  Something they all seem to have suffered with. 

Zac williams has the worst injury history of the bunch.  Nick haynes isnt much better.  Both have played their best footy in years this season.  I think Zac's durability is still a question and given we are playing for naught now, I think weve taken the opportunity to take him off before something serious happens.

I don't think I've suggested that Harry and Charlie cant still play very good football.
What I'm not sure about is their ability to come back and play as good or better football than they have before.
To me that's a wait and see.
They may.
We'll have to agree to disagree.
I think that "running out of time" that you speak of is the cumulative effect of injuries and wear and tear on the body.
It can happen late 20s
It can happen Mid 30s
Just as an example look at Nat Fyfe's last five or six years.
interesting comparison check.  Fyfe's plight is arguably as much a lack of desire as it was injury.  His extra curricular activities were a priority for him because thats where the money was.

How's callan ward as a better example? 2019 and 2020 he looked very much finished with ACL's at age 30.  He's been able to get back and play a few years of very good footy until once again succumbing to his acl rupture this season but he looked gone 5 years ago.

Matthew kreuzer was another who's body let him down.  He missed a lot more footy over the journey than any of our current crop have.  Thing is he's at the club can have some convos with the guys and they will be able to make an informed decision about things.

6
The Sports Desk / Re: Formula 1
Last post by LP -
Piastri is correct to be pissed off with the penalty that cost him the race, this is F1 politics at it's finest.

Interesting also that it's again Red Bull involved, because Verstappen did the exact same thing in a race earlier this season and wasn't penalised at all, while last night Piastri got what is probably the maximum penalty for the same action. Who complains makes a difference.

Perhaps karma got even with Max for bleating about Piastri slowing, but it doesn't help McLaren who now have two drivers head to head, but it helps Red Bull to have Piastri and Norris squabbling.

btw., IN case somebody thinks it's spitting chips for Piastri, he was basically the clear best driver on the day, passing Verstappen, maintaining and growing a gap in front. While Norris only gained ground through other driver errors and penalties.
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Robert Heatley Stand / Re: AFL Rd 18 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane
Last post by Lods -
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Quote from: Lods – on


It's not defeatist Thry
It's facing reality.
One or two may get back to a semblance of their best.
Others are passed it, and are approaching the end of their careers
And some have suffered significant injuries, not just once , but have had a number of seasons derailed by injury.
Injuries can have a cumulative effect.
When you're young you can recover quickly.
As you age it takes it's toll.
Injuries to a back can lead to compensatory injuries in the hamstrings, calves and feet, due to an imbalance.
Some injuries are degenerative and time (and age) is the enemy.

Now in a group you may get one or two who can make a full recovery and play there best football in their late 20's early 30s.
But if that group is large, the more likely result is that you've seen the best of some of these players.

Of our All-Australian players currently listed I would reckon the majority will never see AA again.
And that was the point.
That they'll all never reach that level again.
We'll have others who will come on...but not all of that group.
But time will tell
sorry lods I just want to say that injuries and dealing with them are part good management, part rehab, part preparation, part attitude, part patience and mostly a little luck.

1I've never met an injured bloke cut down and not capable of playing at the elite level ever again no matter the column of their injuries, they usually run out of time before they run out of lives.  Weiters has barely had a real problem.  Harry has had more issue with concussion than his body.  Charlie is unique.  He's showing the ability he used to have but his form is poor and second efforts absent.  More conditioning IMHO.  once conditioning goes optimum performance is harder to achieve but it can come back.

Pros come back from injuries in every code.  It might be we need some of these guys spending more time rehabbing and playing rather than doing any real training but only a solid pre season affords that capability.  Something they all seem to have suffered with. 

Zac williams has the worst injury history of the bunch.  Nick haynes isnt much better.  Both have played their best footy in years this season.  I think Zac's durability is still a question and given we are playing for naught now, I think weve taken the opportunity to take him off before something serious happens.

I don't think I've suggested that Harry and Charlie cant still play very good football.
What I'm not sure about is their ability to come back and play as good or better football than they have before.
To me that's a wait and see.
They may.
We'll have to agree to disagree.
I think that "running out of time" that you speak of is the cumulative effect of injuries and wear and tear on the body.
It can happen late 20s
It can happen Mid 30s
Just as an example look at Nat Fyfe's last five or six years.
9
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: AFL Rd 18 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane
Last post by Thryleon -
Quote from: pinot – on
List isnt the problem - it's drilling a squad.

Chris Scott has drilled Geelong - no matter who is in or out they are drilled as a squad.
Chris Fagan has drilled Brisbane
Craig McRae has drilled Collingwood
Sam Mitchell has drilled Hawthorn
Adam Kingsley has drilled GWS
Hardwick has drilled GCS,

What do these coaches have in common?

They were not re employed after getting sacked.

Lyon, Brad Scott, Clarkson is banana territory

Longmuir is just an awful coach like Buckley.



There's a theme there.  Ignoring the afl love children with an embarrassment of riches in the playing group and potentially some afl salary cap leeway, and the other coaches are at clubs who have a history of having their house in order.

When I look around the afl, I see a variety of teams doing various things, but what I see is the following teams seem to have an identity and brand that was built 20 years ago and a DNA that is manifesting today.

Those clubs are:

Geelong
Sydney
Collingwood
Hawthorn
Western bulldogs have joined this group sometime in the early 2000's and I remember them being an absolute basket case football club in the 90's with the odd star.

IF Richmond turn it around quickly during this rebuild and get back into finals they will also have shed their history of shambles to get back in there.

Brisbane may be part of this conversation since the Fitzroy merger.   They lost their way for a bit but seem to be back.

We used to be part of this conversation but we've lost our way as a club. 

The above show an air of being uber competitive and a unique brand that just keeps finding a way to dominate the competition.

Its the clubs that are making coaches successful not the other way around.  The coaches lead the place whilst in charge, but ultimately they are only as successful as the club let's them be.

We as a footy club have been doing our best to make sure the afl team experiences nothing but failure.  Its almost like the club goes out of its way to shoot itself in the foot.  Its driven by the best intentions but its also very much a club that appears to have a bunch of people tinkering in the operation of it, with minimal strategy. 


We've had one attempt at a rebuild.  We appointed a coach and gave him a list strategy and then endorsed giving him a mandate to set our on field house in order.  Unfortunately we weren't winning and the bottom line started being impacted as sponsors jumped off and then we had to short circuit it.

10
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: AFL Rd 18 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane
Last post by pinot -
List isnt the problem - it's drilling a squad.

Chris Scott has drilled Geelong - no matter who is in or out they are drilled as a squad.
Chris Fagan has drilled Brisbane
Craig McRae has drilled Collingwood
Sam Mitchell has drilled Hawthorn
Adam Kingsley has drilled GWS
Hardwick has drilled GCS,

What do these coaches have in common?

They were not re employed after getting sacked.

Lyon, Brad Scott, Clarkson is banana territory

Longmuir is just an awful coach like Buckley.