Carlton Supporters Club

Quote from: Thryleon – on December 11, 2025, 09:36:20 pm

How can you measure a players Average output?

I.e.  Hayward?  His formline stacks up over 3 years.  Florent was sidelined by his coach, not his ability.  So not sure its fair to do that with him, and Ainsworth had a solid year. 

We are saying all these guys have to do is back up 2025 form, vs the outgoings 2025 form.  Thats 11 games without being subbed off injured for JSOS.

Charlie went bog average by key forward standards.  18 games for 32 goals.  1.8 goals a game.  Sure he kicked 27 behinds, but we wont miss those.  All we need is Kemp to chime in for 18 games and kick 30.  That will cover Charlie.  Hayward and Ainsworth might make up the rest, if Kemp falls short, and Skull is a wildcard here.  Played 5 games, kicked 3 goals.

TDK the ruckman is more of a unicorn than not.  Thing is, you yourself @kruddler  have stated that Pittonet shades him.  So if Pittonet Shades him, TDK's 2025 was a mixed bag, where he was generally good for half the season and then came back to the field.  Rucks are easier to cover, you just need a competitor.  I.e.  Is Cameron a better ruck than Grundy?  Probably not.  Cameron has played better footy than Grundy more often.  Collingwood didnt miss him.  Maybe we will have Pittonet finally have a consistent run.

JSOS.  I love the guy.  Is a competitor, hates being beaten.  Thing is, he played 13 games, and missed 2024 completely.  He was also not present for most of our best footy in 2023, and hasnt even played a final yet for us.  Are we really going to pine about that now? 

It reeks of agenda.  What happened to being measured?

For those of us on my side of the fence, we are fighting off people like yourself who can't seem to agree on where the issues are (or aren't)

I've been arguing about rucks for years and didn;t get many an ally in any of it.
Now it seems 'everyone agrees with me' and are using my arguments as if they were their own. You can't have it both ways.
I'm not rehashing years worth of arguments about those 2.

Going back to the heart of the matter....how do you measure average?

Let me try and explain with the 'olympic scoring' method.
Take out the best and the worst and work with whats left.
So ignore charlies injury year. Take out his best coleman year. Work with whats left. Pretty consistent and consistently above anything we got in.
Using the same logic with Hayward. Take out his 41 goal year and his best was 34 goals. If Charlies worst year last year was 32.
So who is better?

People are sick of me challenging opinions as it is, turning every thread into the same discussion.
You'd be surprised how much i let go.

I said this as recently as 4 days ago, in a thread starting by Thry! But, he goes back to what i was saying 18 months ago.
https://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?topic=7438.msg458110#msg458110

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re tdk...
A lot of people misunderstand me when it comes to him. Let me clarify.
1. I don't think he is worth the crazy money we offered him and certainly not what the saints offer him.
2. I think his ruckwork (hitouts) is average at best, pittonet destroys him in that area.
3. I think his around the ground work is good but far from elite. I did some comparisons to Pittonet in all the key areas tackles, clearances,  marks, disposals etc and they were very similar.
4. His consistency and his ability to stay out in the park is a weakness, see point 1.

That being said...
- His athletic ability is elite.
- His potential is elite.
- If it's 'his day' people can't stop him.
- I picked him as my starting ruck in all of the best 22s we did last year from preseason to the end.

So he is very much a loss. A lot of that loss is a loss on what he could be. Some of that is comparing to what we have instead, in not talking about Pittonet, but 2nd ruck... Reidy or HOK, who should also be a potential kpf we rely on.

The whole debate is very simple.
Players coming in are looked at with navy glasses
Players going out are seen without them.

That is misrepresenting players and thats the crux of the debate.....and why i took it to the n'th degree to highlight that fact.

re tdk...
A lot of people misunderstand me when it comes to him. Let me clarify.
1. I don't think he is worth the crazy money we offered him and certainly not what the saints offer him.
2. I think his ruckwork (hitouts) is average at best, pittonet destroys him in that area.
3. I think his around the ground work is good but far from elite. I did some comparisons to Pittonet in all the key areas tackles, clearances,  marks, disposals etc and they were very similar.
4. His consistency and his ability to stay out in the park is a weakness, see point 1.

That being said...
- His athletic ability is elite.
- His potential is elite.
- If it's 'his day' people can't stop him.
- I picked him as my starting ruck in all of the best 22s we did last year from preseason to the end.

So he is very much a loss. A lot of that loss is a loss on what he could be. Some of that is comparing to what we have instead, in not talking about Pittonet, but 2nd ruck... Reidy or HOK, who should also be a potential kpf we rely on.

@Lods....
And you think the opposing arguments are sticking to facts?

Have a look at Thrys take on 'my thoughts' on TDK vs Pittonet, even though i've made that abundandly clear over the past week.

But thats ok is it? Only when i do it??

Tit for tat.

Quote from: kruddler – on December 12, 2025, 05:15:57 pm

Defence wasn't really a concern?

Lets here a non-Carlton based perspective....
https://www.zerohanger.com/every-afl-teams-backline-ranked-1-18-171600/6/

Did the person who made that ranking actually watch any games or do any actual analysis?

The most basic and reliable assessment of a team's defence is points against and we ranked 9th in 2025.

Defence wasn't really a concern?

Lets here a non-Carlton based perspective....
https://www.zerohanger.com/every-afl-teams-backline-ranked-1-18-171600/6/

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13 - Carlton