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3
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by Lods -
Quote from: shawny – on
What i find somewhat amusing is how so many of us fan opinions change dramatically once you form your own view as to how we are tracking as a club. All the 50/50s when your positive about our direction ‘are going to be great additions and upgrades’ and conversely when you’re not seeing it those same 50/50s are viewed as clear downgrades and negatives and the players we lost are based on their very best form as to what we lost.

And both sides can provide reasonable arguments why their view is more balanced then the other.

Its the same with politics.

Personally im ok with the changes as our hands were tied with all of the major ones but imo all things being equal more quality left then came in so im expecting 2026 to be a average year and a mid table finish. I think our next real chance is if the likes of Dean, campo bros, jagga and walker can all do what the ashcroft brothers did and explode on the scene all while the likes of cripps walsh weitering are all still in their peak.

Thats our hope imo to genuinely be a chance to snare a flag but we need 2-3 years before thats any chance of evenualating.

I think what you say is pretty right.
We adopt a position then everything, strengths and weaknesses of players, gets magnified through the lens of that particular bias.
I'm no means certain my optimism won't be shattered by a few injuries and a bit of bad luck...but gee we're overdue for a change in that aspect.
And in fact that's the key to my thinking.
If we can remain stable in terms of injury there is no reason why we should slip, even given the players we've lost.
Because their contribution to 2025 wasn't their elite form but a fraction of it due to injuries and perhaps as we may come to understand some significant turmoil in some of their off field lives that impacted on their decisions.

Perhaps a good activity for us all would be to take the opposite view to how we currently feel about 2026 and challenge ourselves to defend it with vigour...it might move the dial just a little bit towards the centre.
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Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by shawny -
What i find somewhat amusing is how so many of us fan opinions change dramatically once you form your own view as to how we are tracking as a club. All the 50/50s when your positive about our direction ‘are going to be great additions and upgrades’ and conversely when you’re not seeing it those same 50/50s are viewed as clear downgrades and negatives and the players we lost are based on their very best form as to what we lost.

And both sides can provide reasonable arguments why their view is more balanced then the other.

Its the same with politics.

Personally im ok with the changes as our hands were tied with all of the major ones but imo all things being equal more quality left then came in so im expecting 2026 to be a average year and a mid table finish. I think our next real chance is if the likes of Dean, campo bros, jagga and walker can all do what the ashcroft brothers did and explode on the scene all while the likes of cripps walsh weitering are all still in their peak.

Thats our hope imo to genuinely be a chance to snare a flag but we need 2-3 years before thats any chance of evenualating.
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Robert Heatley Stand / Name your team for Opening Round
Last post by DJC -
No polls, no votes, just name the 23 players you think will run out against the Fluffy Ducks.

While team structure is important, you don’t have to name players in positions but keep team balance in mind.

You can have 8 defenders, 8 forwards and 7 midfielders, or any other combination of 23 players.  Apart from Harry O’Farrell, assume that everyone on the list is available.  White and E Hollands aren’t on the list.

My 23 is:

Defenders - Weitering, Newman, Cowan, Florent, Haynes, Saad, Dean, L Young.

Midfielders - Cripps, Pittonet, Walsh, Hewett, Acres, Smith, Hollands

Forwards - McKay, Hayward, Williams, O’Keeffe, Kemp, Motlop, Moir

Emergencies - Lord, Cerra, Ainsworth

I thought that Lord and Cerra would be monties, but I just couldn’t fit them 🤔
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Robert Heatley Stand / Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 4 - 5 on the bench
Last post by Thryleon -
Quote from: kruddler – on
Quote from: Thryleon – on
I've voted for the same player in multiple lines so not sure what this achieves.
I'm not sure what you are getting at.

Im assuming you are saying you've voted for... someone like Ollie Hollands as a midfielder and as a defender and he hasn't got enough votes to get into either starting position yet. So this is the perfect chance to vote for him again and fill out the bench with players that compliment the stating 18. Ideally someone who can fill multiple roles is perfect.

I don't see why that would be an issue though.
I had selected acres, hollands, florent, lord, motlop,  dean and skull as forwards defenders or mids.

Whilst I see where you're coming from to select 5 on the bench now is tough because jagga isnt near my best 23 even though he might be talented and good enough to be in it. 

Why? I've only seen highlights of him.  On exposed form id have lord in ahead of him.
Makes it hard to vote for players here
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Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by Lods -
Quote from: kruddler – on
Quote from: shawny – on


I hear you but I dont think you are being 100% honest because as recent as early in the year when many including myself wrote another season off when dropping the first batch of games you were always the one who seemed to find a way to stay positive and usually came up with a scenario were not all was lost. You were equally positive during the game threads and rarely conceded until there was no other option.

And you were not a massive fan of TDK so this big turn in your view seems mainly on the back of losing 2 players Charlie and Jack and not replacing a like for a like with them?

I don't blame you for saying enough is enough as you know I lost faith many years ago and had major doubts the current list holes were much bigger then many on here want to believe.

Its good that you point out that i was usually very positive, i am or at least was.
I find it amusing when people disagree with my opinions on the matter and say im just being negative, most are more negative than me.

re tdk...
A lot of people misunderstand me when it comes to him. Let me clarify.
1. I don't think he is worth the crazy money we offered him and certainly not what the saints offer him.
2. I think his ruckwork (hitouts) is average at best, pittonet destroys him in that area.
3. I think his around the ground work is good but far from elite. I did some comparisons to Pittonet in all the key areas tackles, clearances,  marks, disposals etc and they were very similar.
4. His consistency and his ability to stay out in the park is a weakness, see point 1.

That being said...
- His athletic ability is elite.
- His potential is elite.
- If it's 'his day' people can't stop him.
- I picked him as my starting ruck in all of the best 22s we did last year from preseason to the end.

So he is very much a loss. A lot of that loss is a loss on what he could be. Some of that is comparing to what we have instead, in not talking about Pittonet, but 2nd ruck... Reidy or HOK, who should also be a potential kpf we rely on.

So compare tdk to what we have in his place.
Compare a dual Coleman medallist to what we have in his place.
Compare inspirational AA and former (co) captain to what we have in his place
Compare Jack(of all trades) to what we have in his place.

In each area, we are now lacking by comparison. That's 4 best 22 players we have downgraded in the offseason.

Sure some players we got in MAY be an upgrade on other positions, but these positions are less important by comparison.
So yes our hff and fp may be better in 2026 (tbc) but nobody is saying our ff will be better.  Will the ins cover for the outs? I say no. Time will tell.

What i can't understand is the blind faith in current recruiters and list management team.
Each individual pick/player you can make a case for. But as a collective i think they are fixated on the wrong areas and have been for years. The sheer amount of small forwards we have recruited and continue to recruit bother me no end. The constant recruiting to fill a need, confirms their previous efforts have failed as it continues to be a need.

You're doing the 'one to one' thing again and you're talking the best of their ability
Charlie 'was' a Coleman medallist, he may yet be one again, but 2025 Charlie was nowhere near it.
Doc was cooked.
And 'Jack the Saint' struggles to put more than 2/3s of a season together.
TDK isn't even the best ruckman at St Kilda.
...and both the last two are going to miss big chunks of pre-season.
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Robert Heatley Stand / Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 4 - 5 on the bench
Last post by Lods -
Quote from: kruddler – on
Quote from: Thryleon – on
I've voted for the same player in multiple lines so not sure what this achieves.
I'm not sure what you are getting at.

Im assuming you are saying you've voted for... someone like Ollie Hollands as a midfielder and as a defender and he hasn't got enough votes to get into either starting position yet. So this is the perfect chance to vote for him again and fill out the bench with players that compliment the stating 18. Ideally someone who can fill multiple roles is perfect.

I don't see why that would be an issue though.

I went for players other than Hollands.
The way the format is structured most would have Hollands in our best 23 off the top of their heads but  can't find a spot for him on a single line ahead of others in the same position.
He's a player who plays a couple of postitions but I couldn't push anyone out of a line for him.
So ideal bench player?
Of the ones left I have five I'd rather pick (after ticking and ommitting Ollie several times.)
I guess he's my number 24...and with inevitable injuries he'll play just about every game.

The final team with this format won't be the same as many peoples own, best 23.

Folks will have a different focus as they vote
Some will pump for youth, others experience
Some will favour talls over smalls.
Some will favour the new trade-ins and draftees, others will go for the 'devils' they know.
And with different numbers voting in each poll these different preferences may change.
It's been an interesting exercise, but I'm not sure what revelations it's going to throw up.
And by the first game next year, after a couple of practice games, I suspect people will have changed their minds over a number of players.

If O'Farrell tips Dean 3 votes to 2 there are multiple reasons for that choice.
O'Farrell was starting to show something before he was injured'
Dean's a hope of what 'might' be.
O' Farrell probably won't play much this year
Dean likely will.
There's a chance both will be playing seniors by the end of the year.
There is also a chance (perish the thought) that neither will.

I think I preferred the other format which I feel gave a bit more flexibility to individual choices rather than being forced into a more ridid structure.
Cooper Lord is one of the first players I'd pick after our premium midfielders next year, but he's still there at pick "Bench"
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Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by kruddler -
Quote from: shawny – on
Fair enough.

The thing is when i see fans like yourself lose faith at the direction of the club it really hammers home we are miles off which is hard to bloody take.

Realistically if we have a blessed run with injuries we can still play finals.
With a bit of luck Kemp can kick 60 goals for the year. Harry can recapture his Coleman form and Jagga could win the rising star. 

However, 2 of them are coming back from a year off which they may not recover from our could reinjure themselves and the 3rd continues to suffer from mental demons in one form or another, so we may get nothing from all 3 and finish bottom 4.

That's why we play the season though because anything can happen.

Personally, i play the odds and option 2 is more likely than option 1.... looking at anyone who doesn't barrack for Carlton will confirm that.
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Robert Heatley Stand / Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 4 - 5 on the bench
Last post by kruddler -
Quote from: DJC – on
It’s been an interesting exercise - and thanks Kruddler for putting the time and effort into the polls.

However, I think that the process has lost connection with reality and we’re now being asked to vote for players we’ve already voted for or have no intention of voting for.

I would prefer a simple vote for 8 defenders, 8 forwards and 7 midfielders.

Nothing is stopping you from creating what you want.

The logic behind doing it this way is to see a few things....
1. Where people see certain players playing.
2. This highlights some areas of need or at least areas where (to use an NFL term) positional battles are. Eg wing.
3. It's a wisdom of the masses exercise. I doubt any one person will get their best 23, and even if they do it might even be with players in different positions.

For the record, I'd much rather a team with more than 7 midfielders. We start 6 and if we want a 2nd ruck, then any rotation will come from forwards or backs.
Id prefer midfielders who can rest forward or back instead.