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Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by Lods -
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Quote from: Lods – on


Our injury list in 2024 consisted of much more than TDK and Curnow

Docherty didn't play until the end of the season and was clearly underdone.
As well as an extensive list of players down through the year..
Players listed as doubtful or needing tests prior to the elimination final against Brisbane included-

McKay
Cerra
McGovern
Willliams
Martin
Boyd
Durdin
Marchbank

We didn't fall off a cliff in 2024...we were pushed off by the injury gods.




The Giants game where Charlie stepped in a hole in the warm up was a turning point. Yeah we had a lot of injuries but he was the best forward in the comp.

But that wasn't the only reason we struggled...there were multiple reasons
And that's the thing...at the moment he's far from being the best forward in the competition.
He may get back there, but it's his season 2025 form we're judging if we're determining whether or not his l;oss will have impact on our ladder position next year.
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Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by madbluboy -
Quote from: Lods – on
Quote from: madbluboy – on
If you go back a little further to 2024 when we had our run and looked the best we have since 2000 it was on the back of Cripps, TDK and Curnow.
The latter two got injured and we fell off a cliff.

Our injury list in 2024 consisted of much more than TDK and Curnow

Docherty didn't play until the end of the season and was clearly underdone.
As well as an extensive list of players down through the year..
Players listed as doubtful or needing tests prior to the elimination final against Brisbane included-

McKay
Cerra
McGovern
Willliams
Martin
Boyd
Durdin
Marchbank

We didn't fall off a cliff in 2024...we were pushed off by the injury gods.




The Giants game where Charlie stepped in a hole in the warm up was a turning point. Yeah we had a lot of injuries but he was the best forward in the comp.
6
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by Baggers -
Quote from: PaulP – on
Whilst I acknowledge this thread is about the list improving or worsening, I am a little surprised about the lack of discussion throughout the forum of things beyond the list. Leaving aside the obvious ultimate goal of a premiership, what we all want to see is more wins and more convincing form. Improvement can come from a number of sources, which are not always on field and when they are, they're not easy to gauge or measure. It may be that Davies and Wright will provide leadership and direction that has been previously lacking, which will flow through the organization. It may be that the presence of Boak, Simpson, and new assistant coaches will give Voss the support and feedback he needs to go to the next level. There may have been disharmony and distraction throughout the playing group wrt Charlie, De Koning and Jack Silvagni - perhaps that is now in the past, and a more unified, less distracted group may play better football. We have finally have better luck with injuries etc.

Treating the players as atomistic, self contained entities, like parts of a machine, certainly has its place, but can only take you so far IMO. 

I was disappointed and surprised your post didn't get more acknowledgment, Pauly. The Gestalt Therapist within me marvelled at your perspective.

Yes. So many parts of the CFC in support of the playing group, and the playing group itself, have changed in the off season... with significant leadership credentials added to the mix along with strengthened support for existing leadership.

7
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by Lods -
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Quote from: Lods – on


What I'm arguing with is that you are looking at the 'best' of these players and arguing what we've lost means we will slip further down the ladder.
But if Tom, Charlie and Jack, had played at that level (their best) for a whole season I'm pretty sure we would have finished better than eleventh.
Even 50-60 goals from Charlie would have made a difference.

TDK is a loss, but it's a loss of a certain type of ruckman and we still have Pittonet who shaded him in ruck work, and O'Keefe (who is a probably a better ruck forward) who will more than likely improve....and Reidy who was behind a couple of pretty good rucks at Freo but played some very good football at the WAFL level, to consider...so net loss for TDK not so much.

So we have to look at their 2025 output when deciding whether or not their loss is as significant as you claim.
We only have to replace their 2025 efforts to maintain our position or do better.

Now that's even before we consider the season losses of Newman, Kemp and Jagga.
Add the loss of O'Farrell when he was just starting to show the goods.
Then consider Harry and his issues...the distraction that was Elijah.

You can't see how we're going to be as good as 11th
I can't see how we're going to be worse.
So best we agree to disgree.
TDKs main value was that of an extra midfielder, those other players don't come close to what he offered around the ground and its essentially why he got offered the big money.

If you're after an extra midfielder I think we might have that covered.
Averaged 3 marks a game, 6 goals for the year and some average disposal.
TDK was very good at the follow up after the ruck contest and that was his strength.
It gave us an advantage at the contest against slower to react ruckmen.

I have no idea why he was offered the ridiculous amount of money.
SOS has a history of picking up players he recruited....but it was probably more about his 'potential'.
In coming years he may be the elite ruckman of the competition but at the moment there are quite a few in front of him.
8
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by Lods -
Quote from: madbluboy – on
If you go back a little further to 2024 when we had our run and looked the best we have since 2000 it was on the back of Cripps, TDK and Curnow.
The latter two got injured and we fell off a cliff.

Our injury list in 2024 consisted of much more than TDK and Curnow

Docherty didn't play until the end of the season and was clearly underdone.
As well as an extensive list of players down through the year..
Players listed as doubtful or needing tests prior to the elimination final against Brisbane included-

McKay
Cerra
McGovern
Willliams
Martin
Boyd
Durdin
Marchbank

We didn't fall off a cliff in 2024...we were pushed off by the injury gods.


9
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by ElwoodBlues1 -
Quote from: Lods – on
Quote from: kruddler – on


I'm not doing the one to one thing again, I'm doing out vs in.  4 positions we got worse, 2 positions we got better. I don't know why you guys fight against that so much. Overall team cohesion will magically get better based off of that to create a net win... that's an argument i disagree with.

Charlie before he did his knee may never have reached the heights he did. Charlie in 2025 was cooked. Didn't have a preseason. Played through injury. We refused to drop him and key him recover. A common theme with us.

I don't care if tdk is 2nd ruck at saints, he was first ruck with us. Arguments like that are said to diminish his importance rather than acknowledge his loss.

Playing devils advocate, if all these players are so bad, why did they get record contract/ trade offers? Perhaps it's more about you, than them?

If all the players we got in are so good, who did clubs push them out the door for a discounted price?

What I'm arguing with is that you are looking at the 'best' of these players and arguing what we've lost means we will slip further down the ladder.
But if Tom, Charlie and Jack, had played at that level (their best) for a whole season I'm pretty sure we would have finished better than eleventh.
Even 50-60 goals from Charlie would have made a difference.

TDK is a loss, but it's a loss of a certain type of ruckman and we still have Pittonet who shaded him in ruck work, and O'Keefe (who is a probably a better ruck forward) who will more than likely improve....and Reidy who was behind a couple of pretty good rucks at Freo but played some very good football at the WAFL level, to consider...so net loss for TDK not so much.

So we have to look at their 2025 output when deciding whether or not their loss is as significant as you claim.
We only have to replace their 2025 efforts to maintain our position or do better.

Now that's even before we consider the season losses of Newman, Kemp and Jagga.
Add the loss of O'Farrell when he was just starting to show the goods.
Then consider Harry and his issues...the distraction that was Elijah.

You can't see how we're going to be as good as 11th
I can't see how we're going to be worse.
So best we agree to disgree.
TDKs main value was that of an extra midfielder, those other players don't come close to what he offered around the ground and its essentially why he got offered the big money.