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1
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by kruddler -
Quote from: Lods – on
It was absolutely the right thing to do.
I wrote before last year's draft that the time was running out for the class of 2015, and by extension Cripps and Docherty.
And that we were looking very light on for youth.
We've addressed that in the last two drafts and we're looking much better in terms of the future.

It's sad for players like Docherty.
It may have influenced Silvagni and Curnow.

But I'm not sure who we could have added in that recruiting period after the prelim that would have made a significant difference.


See i find these comments from you fascinating.

I was highlighting time is running out, so we needed to start drafting our spine replacements. I was told by you, and others, that either we had plenty of time or we had enough cover with what we had.

I was also told i was thinking of the now with recruiting these replacements when all along i was trying to prepare for this very moment.

Now you say it was the right thing to do?
This seems very contradictory from you.

Of course, that aside is still doesn't conform if it is the right time.
Geelong and Collingwood wouldn't have done it. They've been ready to fall off the age cliff for the better part of 2 decades now in geelongs case, less so for the pies, but still, they are old and holding on.

Eg pendles if he plays on after next year will play against Cody walker.
He not only played with his dad, but was drafted just 2 years after him.
Imagine if they started a rebuild like we did when we did.

So no, i don't think it was the right thing to do. I think had we drafted kpps when i flagged it, we wouldn't need to be doing one now either.
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Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by LP -
Quote from: DJC – on
In other words, while clearly better informed than most supporters, Doc’s list management opinion is just that.
All personal opinions show bias, it's why clubs have committees of management.

Even so you can still find decisions being dominated by emotions and individuals, it's sometimes hard to cut the apron string. Some of this debate shows it, with welded on opinions about how we played and structured up in the past, and why we need it to continue versus change. Change is tough.
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Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by DJC -
Quote from: Lods – on
It was absolutely the right thing to do.
I wrote before last year's draft that the time was running out for the class of 2015, and by extension Cripps and Docherty.
And that we were looking very light on for youth.
We've addressed that in the last two drafts and we're looking much better in terms of the future.

It's sad for players like Docherty.
It may have influenced Silvagni and Curnow.

But I'm not sure who we could have added in that recruiting period after the prelim that would have made a significant difference.

Doc’s preference was understandable coming from the perspective of a player in the twilight of his career.  It wasn’t informed by the truckloads of data accumulated by all list managers and probably didn’t take into consideration the availability of players with the potential to improve our list.

In other words, while clearly better informed than most supporters, Doc’s list management opinion is just that.
4
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by Thryleon -
Its a catch 22.  Do you do a Geelong, try load up and get that flag?

We were soundly beaten by the best side in the comp (Brisbane) in finals, and were able to match it with the also rans in our other finals well enough.

I think they've calculated that if things went perfectly, we could have been in the frame for a flag, but they havent, and as a result, we havent been in that frame properly.  

Personally, you can only put yourself in the mix.  We had all the ingredients, but the game went away from our strength and towards our weakness, and no individual acquisition would likely have changed us sufficiently to do anything but wind up like the crows of the 2025 season.  As soon as Rankine went out, they went from rolled gold, to rubbish.
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Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by Lods -
It was absolutely the right thing to do.
I wrote before last year's draft that the time was running out for the class of 2015, and by extension Cripps and Docherty.
And that we were looking very light on for youth.
We've addressed that in the last two drafts and we're looking much better in terms of the future.

It's sad for players like Docherty.
It may have influenced Silvagni and Curnow.

But I'm not sure who we could have added in that recruiting period after the prelim that would have made a significant difference.
6
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by kruddler -
Quote from: Thryleon – on
I haven't come up with it on my own, its something that Ive gleaned from listening to the comments of Docherty where he mentioned he would have preferred someone more mature aged.

This is something i flagged too.

Doc seems to think, and i agreed before i heard him say this, that instead of adding ready to go talent to the list that made a prelim, we did the opposite and got younger/weaker as a list....and results showed.
Myself and eb1 were very vocal about it.
We've now done that 2 years in a row imo.
Ultimately i think some of what we did last year helped players move this year. Which imo means we'll fall again.... but lack of injuries can stop that.

Long term it might be the right thing to do.

Starting a rebuild to a side that made the prelim seems to be something only carlton would do though.
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Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by Thryleon -
I think I flagged it when we went out and picked up Cerra and Hewett rather than going the draft.  It was the mature aged player to help fill around Walsh, as we had too many draft misses and it also had the effect of fleshing out that middle part of the team that was a bit low on bonafide AFL footballers.
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Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by Thryleon -
That will continue next year too.  We wont be adding mature players unless its a free agent.  Elijah Hollands was one too.  Hit that sweet spot.  Campbell Chesser too.  Frankie Evans.

I haven't come up with it on my own, its something that Ive gleaned from listening to the comments of Docherty where he mentioned he would have preferred someone more mature aged.

We did bring in Haynes, but that was a relative free hit given the price we paid.  If the asking price was higher, we wouldnt have bothered I think.
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Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by Lods -
Quote from: kruddler – on
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Mr speaker, I believe the senator is now changing his argument because he doesnt like the Irish lads.

My contention is that we prioritised bringing in young talent in order to pass the proverbial baton from the older guard that might have won us something, in an effort to build a younger layer to the team and prevent us from bottoming out.  That group will come good about the time tassie joins (or not).

It puts our recruiting in a different perspective and thats all im aiming for.

Now ive given you a point, what point are you making kruddler?

We've recruited 8 players so far.
3x 18yo's at the draft
22yo
25yo
3x27yo's
=average age 23

We delisted/traded 11 players
3x 21yo
2x 23yo
1x 26yo
1x 27yo
2x 28yo
1x 30yo - Fantasia retiring
1x 32yo - Docherty retiring
=Average age 25

If we exclude the 2 retiring players
=Average age 24.

Given every team gets younger this time of year, i'm not sure we have done anything out of the ordinary.

Personally, i don't see as changing tact at all, or doing anything different to the norm.
TBH, i'm surprised we took as many 'older' players as we did.

It's not so much the age as the make-up of the list...but we did add Smith, O Farrell and the Camporeale's last year