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21
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 4 - 5 on the bench
Last post by Lods -
That's the whole point.
I'm sorry these guys are not there.
Fully fit they would be in everybody's best team.
They would enhance our side.
If we were doing this exercise and they were still on the list they get a game in most people's sides.

Why? Because the ground rules Kruddler laid down said they were "fully fit" (even O' Farrell is in the mix and he might not even play a game next year.)

I think some have forgotten the 'ground' rules for this List Management debate, and the key question.
"Higher ladder position in 2025 or 2026"
Some are having difficulty grasping why we won't slide.

That debate question spreads over a number of threads, is ongoing, and also applies here... Will we perform better in 2026 than we did in 2025 given the changes to the list?

And that debate centres around the three main players we have lost, and the players coming in through trade and draft.
Don't think Coleman Charlie 2023, think Charlie 2025.

Charlie's contribution 2023 would be near impossible to cover
Charlie 2025...not so much.
There is every chance they will blossom at their new clubs and regain their best form, but early indications for 2026 are not great with both Jack and Tom missing some significant pre-season. Jack in particular seems to have an ongoing injury issue...and I suspect for some time has had a fair bit on his plate, which may go some way to explaining his decision to move.

Tom has had the distraction of the big money move. Charlie and Jack have had ongoing injury problems, all these impacted on their form the past year.

And that's why if you ask me the question... Will we be better in 2026 than we were at 11th place in 2025?...I'm guessing, yes.
Will we finish higher than we did in 2023...I'm guessing, no....2027 for that target. ;)

22
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 4 - 5 on the bench
Last post by ElwoodBlues1 -
Quote from: Lods – on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on

Given TDK, Charlie and Jack were/are now classified as spuds/navy blue infidels and the players we have brought in are vastly superior you wouldnt be able to include the afore mentioned three in your best 23 for next season if they were still on the list and the new recruits were also available?

I don't think anyone is saying these players we lost were 'duds'
They were obviously best 23
All three would probably make most folks selctions.
They'd make mine.

But their 2025 form was sub par, except perhaps for Jack who showed some promise as a KPD....before he was injured ::)
So in determining whether we improve from 2025 to 2026 we don't look at their best, we look at what they gave us in 2025 and that gap, if it exists, isn't that large.

The whole list debate centres around the difference between 2025 and 2026
Whether we finish about the same, 11th, whether we drop...or progress.
Some think we'll slide based on the loss of the three amigos.
Some think we'll stay about the same.
Others see us progressing.

We don't know the future.
In a lot of respects the list won't be a determining factor....it will be a better run with injuries, how the new players gel, no issues like player mental health, no division, a totally committed group... and a big change in luck, which hasn't been our friend the last two years.

Can't see how they make your best team if you and others have said their loss would be negligible in effect and say we have a better improved team without them.
You can't have it both ways...if we are a better team without them why would you pick them in your best 23?
TDK isn't as a good a ruckman as Pittonet, HOk ,or Reidy, JSOS is slow and Injury prone and Charlie isnt productive enough with a poor attitude...that's what I have been reading. Surely they would be VFL players and backup only...
23
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 4 - 5 on the bench
Last post by Thryleon -
Jack Silvagni was never clearly in everyone's best 23.  He was often the one that missed out, and Im one of the people who would select him more often than not.

Thing is, last year was arguably his best output for a season.  13 games, in which he was subbed early at least twice, and was influential in only about 2 of them.  He was otherwise very good, but not the difference.  He's joining a pretty defensive unit so I expect he will look good at the Saints, but I wonder how much of him looking like an elite defender, was as much to do with the players around him and how we defended as a team as it was him.   We certainly didnt get pummelled without him, and he played in our worst loss for the year before succumbing to injury (vs Port).
24
The Sports Desk / Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Last post by Thryleon -
Quote from: crashlander – on
Quote from: bratblue – on
Boycott reckons his mother could bat better with a stick of rubarb. haha
The English press certainly do not hold back. Our media is far from blameless, but I doubt we'd see quite the same level of hate being expressed.
You go from chocolates to boiled lollies very quickly over there.

Its the nature of English sports.  They need something to write about.  Follow the EPL for a season.  They display Carlton like pressure cooker in the media.
25
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 4 - 5 on the bench
Last post by Lods -
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Quote from: Lods – on
Yep
Cripps, McKay Weitering, Walsh, Hewett all duds

Moir, O'Keefe, Smith, Dean....probably won't get a game in this side.
What were we thinking drafting losers like Hayward and Ainsworth to bolster the forward line.
O'Farrell...will struggle to get back...ever!

We're screwed. :D

Thank heavens for Evans. ;)
Given TDK, Charlie and Jack were/are now classified as spuds/navy blue infidels and the players we have brought in are vastly superior you wouldnt be able to include the afore mentioned three in your best 23 for next season if they were still on the list and the new recruits were also available?

I don't think anyone is saying these players we lost were 'duds'
They were obviously best 23
All three would probably make most folks selctions.
They'd make mine.

But their 2025 form was sub par, except perhaps for Jack who showed some promise as a KPD....before he was injured ::)
So in determining whether we improve from 2025 to 2026 we don't look at their best, we look at what they gave us in 2025 and that gap, if it exists, isn't that large.

The whole list debate centres around the difference between 2025 and 2026
Whether we finish about the same, 11th, whether we drop...or progress.
Some think we'll slide based on the loss of the three amigos.
Some think we'll stay about the same.
Others see us progressing.

We don't know the future.
In a lot of respects the list won't be a determining factor....it will be a better run with injuries, how the new players gel, no issues like player mental health, no division, a totally committed group... and a big change in luck, which hasn't been our friend the last two years.
26
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by Thryleon -
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Quote from: Lods – on


Our injury list in 2024 consisted of much more than TDK and Curnow

Docherty didn't play until the end of the season and was clearly underdone.
As well as an extensive list of players down through the year..
Players listed as doubtful or needing tests prior to the elimination final against Brisbane included-

McKay
Cerra
McGovern
Willliams
Martin
Boyd
Durdin
Marchbank

We didn't fall off a cliff in 2024...we were pushed off by the injury gods.




The Giants game where Charlie stepped in a hole in the warm up was a turning point. Yeah we had a lot of injuries but he was the best forward in the comp.

Therein lies the issue.

We were a team heavily reliant on a handful of players.  Cripps 2025 form was right down as well.

We need to spread that load and rely less on the stars.  The stars sometimes dont like that, so they pull the pin.

Thing is, the 2024 season hit the skids that game, but the rule changes implemented took our strength at fighting through tackles and disposing the pill away from us and then Hawthorn showed that the outside game was the thing you needed (which we didnt possess).  The game went away from us.  Our strengths masked it, but the pattern of us getting out to an early lead, and then being hunted down was a little more than just strength, conditioning and injury and started in 2024.  It continued into 2025.  So we are changing it up.
28
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 4 - 5 on the bench
Last post by ElwoodBlues1 -
Quote from: Lods – on
Yep
Cripps, McKay Weitering, Walsh, Hewett all duds

Moir, O'Keefe, Smith, Dean....probably won't get a game in this side.
What were we thinking drafting losers like Hayward and Ainsworth to bolster the forward line.
O'Farrell...will struggle to get back...ever!

We're screwed. :D

Thank heavens for Evans. ;)
Given TDK, Charlie and Jack were/are now classified as spuds/navy blue infidels and the players we have brought in are vastly superior you wouldnt be able to include the afore mentioned three in your best 23 for next season if they were still on the list and the new recruits were also available?
29
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 4 - 5 on the bench
Last post by Thryleon -
Quote from: kruddler – on
Everyone's team will be different. No point getting upset you can't fit one player in because another player has been picked.

This exercise gives some insight into potentially how the MC would pick a team. Or at least, should pick a team.

Get the blokes who are best at that position and pick guys on the bench that compliment the team you have.
Don't shoehorn 8 small forwards into the lineup because they are your favourites. Pick a team that's a team.

For mine, the bench players offer cover across a few positions.
So ollie players as he can cover HB and wing.
Motlop and Frankie plays as they can cover small forward and wing/mid
HOK plays as he can cover key forward and ruck.

And Lord plays as an extra midfielder.

I don't think we need Dean in the side when we have weiters and hof with haynes as backup already.... or young for that matter.

Id like to include carroll as well but Ollie being more versatile means he gets the spot.

There is no right/ wrong answer

Im not getting upset, just highlighting an issue.
30
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 4 - 5 on the bench
Last post by Lods -
Yep
Cripps, McKay Weitering, Walsh, Hewett all duds

Moir, O'Keefe, Smith, Dean....probably won't get a game in this side.
What were we thinking drafting losers like Hayward and Ainsworth to bolster the forward line.
O'Farrell...will struggle to get back...ever!

We're screwed. :D

Thank heavens for Evans. ;)