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21
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments
Last post by kruddler -
Quote from: Lods – on
Quote from: Professer E – on
See this is the point that some are making. It's easy to rite off ON as "populist" or call them whatever names you like, but it's a choice, which is about the only thing we have left.  Who is actually worth voting for and can form a viable, effective government - in for example Victoria?  Labour is clouded in a miasma of corruption and incompetence, and the Libs haven't been an effective opposition for years. Plus they couldn't be trusted to run a chook raffle. In the end it's personal choice, the only part of the Democratic process left to us.

That's quite true.
And given the failure of the traditional major parties you can see that some may look to something different.

It may be that the attraction of an alternative needs to be tested by a spell in power before folks understand the ramifications of that choice.
It's possible that experience would put the alternative to rest once and for all.

But the major problem I'm guessing at is that the Victorian election will throw up a dog's breakfast...and stability will be difficult to achieve.

Some people cannot learn by watching other people make mistakes, they need to make those same mistakes themselves.

Thats us, with ON. Sure, we could learn from Trump and USA, but no.....we 'know' better.

Labour and Liberals.....both have their flaws....and numerous ones at that.
However, it won't be until one nation get in, that we realise how bad things can actually get....and by then we'll be begging for labour or liberal to come back into power.

22
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments
Last post by LP -
A big risk really is the candidates going underground because of repeated leaks, badgering and exposés.

I know some might think this is trivial, but I'd draw your attention to the recent election on the Mornington Peninsula. There was a candidate who campaigned for mayor as a staunch independant, chastised most opponents as either Liberal, Labor or Green lap dogs, then part way through the elected tenure resigned to nominate as the Liberal parties preferred candidate in a by-election.

We are seeing this more and more, candidates deliberately masking the personal politics to get elected, I understand it's not just a local problem, like Pauline's Nazi boosters it's a global problem, for example Reform UK. I genuinely think it's time to change some of democracies laws to cripple minority rule and hung parliaments from being the preferred outcome, because the fringe live and die on that very political feature which allows them to divide the vote.

btw., This is nothing new to suggest such change is required, this has all happened before, around the rise of the fascists before The Great War and WWII. I'm not sure many of our sovereign citizens know much about history, I've read some of them quoting the Alamo!
23
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments
Last post by Lods -
A political entitie's relevance is pretty much tied to their ability to draw support.
Do they have enough support to be a part of the decision making process?
Will they be the ones to control the spending and policies affecting the people voting for them?

Now in the case where Green representation and suport may allow a Labor government to hold on to power, the Greens may possess that ability.
Is it a more likely scenario that it is a centre/right conservative group or coalition that will emerge with the control of the purse?

I suspect that's the expectation... and why ON has a degree more relevance than the Greens at the moment.
Can either win enough seats to have a big seat (or two) at the table when decisions are made?
We'll have to wait and see.

24
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments
Last post by PaulP -
It's pretty obvious reading between the lines that a number of folks on here think the Greens are either a joke or a political non entity, or maybe both. Whether or not this is a meritorious position is debatable, but for people that think that way, I'd be curious to know why they think the Greens are a joke but PHON is a legitimate political entity. If one is going to think that way about the Greens, I'm not sure how you can think differently about, and give support to, a party that has no policies, no internal coherence, is plagued with scandal and embarrassment, and is about as far away from supporting the average person as it's possible to be. There's no consistency as far as I can see. 
25
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments
Last post by Lods -
Quote from: Professer E – on
See this is the point that some are making. It's easy to rite off ON as "populist" or call them whatever names you like, but it's a choice, which is about the only thing we have left.  Who is actually worth voting for and can form a viable, effective government - in for example Victoria?  Labour is clouded in a miasma of corruption and incompetence, and the Libs haven't been an effective opposition for years. Plus they couldn't be trusted to run a chook raffle. In the end it's personal choice, the only part of the Democratic process left to us.

That's quite true.
And given the failure of the traditional major parties you can see that some may look to something different.

It may be that the attraction of an alternative needs to be tested by a spell in power before folks understand the ramifications of that choice.
It's possible that experience would put the alternative to rest once and for all.

But the major problem I'm guessing at is that the Victorian election will throw up a dog's breakfast...and stability will be difficult to achieve.
27
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments
Last post by Professer E -
See this is the point that some are making. It's easy to rite off ON as "populist" or call them whatever names you like, but it's a choice, which is about the only thing we have left.  Who is actually worth voting for and can form a viable, effective government - in for example Victoria?  Labour is clouded in a miasma of corruption and incompetence, and the Libs haven't been an effective opposition for years. Plus they couldn't be trusted to run a chook raffle. In the end it's personal choice, the only part of the Democratic process left to us.
28
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments
Last post by Thryleon -
Quote from: dodge – on
This isn't disagreeing, with you Thry, but a quick look at the other side...and sorry, it's a longer post than anticipated...

I would be wary of LNP promises and totally dismissive of ON...

LNP are promising to reduce the government wages bill.  Fine.  But where from and what services are going to be reduced is the important part.  As long as the public service isn't replaced by the consulting firms, which leads to an absolute disaster - no accountability, no public service knowledge and no IP retained in the departments and a cost that is eye watering.  It is also additional cost and spending that gives no long term benefit to the state.

What are the LNP plans to replace the CFA trucks? They plan to scrap the fire services levy - so where is the funding coming from?

$5b to fix 1m pot holes - $5k each?  Really?  Better to bring back the Country Road boards and have crews do it properly, rather than privateers who can do a half-Ar34ed job, so it crumbles two weeks later.

They have just announced re-opening trains to Mildura and Dimboola at a cost of $51m.  Is that for the feasibility study? Surely after 30+ years of not running it will cost heaps more to get the tracks back up to standard, get the trains and re-furb the stations.

As for ON who want zero analysis of their policies and costings - let alone any criticism.  Easy to scream about problems, but give a costed viable alternative - everything offered so far costs - where are the savings?  I do however like their Environment policy which talks about saving Koalas and other flora.  Went to a nursery the other week to ask for a Koala plant, but they didn't have any.

SRL is a bit ugly.  It is an inheritance that whoever wins will receive.  LNP to pause and review (a favorite strategy of theirs, so they don't actually have to do anything), with a hint that it will be scrapped.  ON will scrap it.  Labor will continue with it.  Scrapping it means losing everything that has been put into it and cost of paying out contracts.  It seems as if promises are to then fund cost of living relief education etc, however, does providing this bring a better economic outlook to Vic?  Is it better to pay the cancellation or go ahead - the East West Link debate.

Law and order - if the current gov isn't meeting police recruiting targets, how are LNP going to meet theirs (3k) and ON theirs (10k military veterans)?

I really just want the answers to a few questions there are probably a few more: 
1) How are you going to help the lives of the most vulnerable in our society.
2) How are you going to responsibly ensure infrastructure is in place and maintained for the current and anticipated populations
3) What on going actions are you taking to decrease the cost of living pressures/cost of business in an operational sense ie not just providing government subsidies, but meaningful, sustainable decreases?
4) How are you going to help bring our communities back together so that reasonable debate and togetherness is achieved, rather than aggressive us v them style arguments?
I actually didnt post a side, I simply asked an AI, and gave a response that gave credit to both labor and liberal parties.

I dont take One Nation seriously.  If they gain ascendency it should be viewed with the appropriate lens, and that is the lens of up yours to the traditional parties, and a bit wake up call that they are out of touch.

Ultimately, im no fan boy.  Ive spent most of my adulthood voting labor, and im flipping to Liberal since the last election.

I dont see myself as winning or losing off the back of either vote, its simply a matter of balance.