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Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by Thryleon -No its going back to the original point.
That's changing the focus again....you've moved away from the age debate to the talent debate
Average age is pretty meaningless when you're talking in averages only a year or two different.
Our list got weaker.
The opposition to this justify this by saying we got younger as we were too old.
I'm pointing out relative to the opposition, we got older.
The players we recruited, half of them were older than our average age.
That flies in the face of the arguement that we are rebuilding/rejuvinating and getting younger.
THIS was the justification for destroying our prelim list and the reason we are nosediving.
I'm calling BS on the rejuvination of the list as a viable strategy given we've barely moved the age needle, and done so less than most who are not doing the same thing.
All this falls back to the same question which i can't get a straight answer on.
WHY does everyone have so much faith in the current list management team?
The reasons i've had so far are contradictory at worst, and weak at best.
Back to recruiting, you can prioritise younger and also bring in mature agers at the same time. To me, the focus was that best 23 around Sam Walsh's age, and that remains true, even with the 27 year olds we have brought in. We were attempting to shift our key performers from the pointy end of the list (Docherty, Cripps, Saad, Acres, McGovern, Williams) to a mid tier. This was also an effort to make us more attractive to stay at for a guy like TDK. In his mid 20's and being offerred big dollars to go. We are adding youthful talent, stick around.
Thing is, HOF was good. ACL. Jagga appears to have all the right stuff said about him. ACL. We have Dean joining the fray, and we also have Walker coming in, but then the AFL have pulled a fast one on us. Instead of getting the guys without the premium draft picks, ala Daicos and all the Brisbane Father sons like Fletcher and Ashcrofts x2 we have had to pony up to get them. So that means looking at futures rather than the now. It had to mean sacrificing selecting a key tall to net in additional draft picks next year. To me, that was as simple as they wont help us now, and we will need them moving forward to flesh out the following.
Just to post it again, because its become a bit lost:
From the youngsters who are a mix of Bonafide AFL players and not, here is the result (I chose 25 as a cut off, so 26 year olds miss out at the date of writing i.e. Cerra, Cotters, Fogarty, Boyd, Lewis Young, Ainsworth, Florent, Hayward who are all about 27 as they are not the future):
Cowan (21)----------O'Farrell(19)--------M. Carroll(20)
H.Charleson (19)----------Duffy(22)--------Dean(18)
Camporeale. L(19)--------Camporeale. B(19)--------O. Hollands(22)
Walsh (25)--------------Reidy(25)----------------Chesser(22)
Ison(19)-----------O'Keefe(21)------------Motlop (22)
Byrne(18)-----------Kemp(24)----------------Moir(21)
Int from:
Lord (21), Wilson(20), Monahan(21), Jagga (20), Evans(24), Young(24)
To this group we might add Will White(21), or Elijah Hollands(23) depending on how that final list spot falls, or a complete other option.
This team is not the finished article but from where I can sit, we have focussed on bringing in the draft picks to flesh the above side out, we have dumped salary to also leave us room to secure the futures of this lot, and bring in other dial movers and still acquired some handy players for the top layer whilst giving us a strong hand for a more sustained addition of talent during the years when the draft is going to be heavily weighted to Tassie.
Rightly or wrongly, our club has made the decision to neglect the short term and gamble on a few players that are not dial movers but solid citizens (to be frank, using history as a guide, our rise was fleeting, and too much went wrong to sustain us up there and most of the truly big clubs never really feared us as Geelong has been the only side with bonafides we have consistently troubled over the last 5 years) in an effort to carry us forward. Thing is, this might be enough if it all goes well enough, which thus far it hasnt. I wouldnt be banking on it all going swimmingly either, as that just doesnt happen at Carlton, but you never say never. Irrespective, I see enough in what we are doing to prevent us bottoming out once Cripps goes, and potentially to get us back up the ladder fairly quickly and hopefully removing that flaky under belly in the process.
Maybe im too optimistic about it, but I can see what they are trying to do, and that is enough for me. @kruddler you seem to be most negative about what they are doing and I understand that too, as there is no time like the present and we need to be getting better now, but old Carlton used to walk that road. Old Carlton would top up with a couple of players and then put us in the mix. Thing is, old Carlton is dead, and any attempts we make to resuscitate it seem to end up causing premature bottoming out, and doesnt look to be a sustainable way of moving forward. I have a cousin who is similarly minded. He is in his late 40's and always likes to bag me out for not understanding the old Carlton way because im only in my early 40's, but I remember what it was like. Thing is, that was over half my lifetime ago, and I dont see the point in attempting to emulate old Carlton. The competition has 5 extra teams now, and attempting to be old Carlton has simply delivered our worst performing 20 years in the clubs history, with a few highlights. So am happy there is a plan, we are executing it, and it seems to have its heart in the right place. Will the results marry up? Im not sure, but I for one am happy to have a proffessional approach which will hopefully avoid years of pain. I can handle a couple of dissapointing years, but not another decade of "rebuilding".
Finally looking at Liverpool. They went out, and got the gun high priced recruits this off season. The team is not performing, their previous A graders are struggling because too much change, some of the acquisitions have been non complimentary and the end result? The worst start to a Premier League season in over a decade. Beware the big profile recruits. It hasnt worked for us much (Judd aside) and even then the price may have been a bit too high to have been worthwhile.