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Re: Reset Rants

Reply #375 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
My take on it was that Daisy was suggesting CC is goofy, nothing more than that. He suggested he does things in a way that makes him  unpredictable. There was no malice whatsoever.

Agreed. Thought that came across in my post, but perhaps not.

Re: Reset Rants

Reply #376 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
You stated that no CFC player would be universally loved, then include as "evidence" for this fact comments made by Thomas wrt CC ?

The issue of whether to play by the rules or not is vexed and one that constantly appears in various guises on here. I've lost count of how many posts on here I've read about how we are now a club of goody two shoes, whilst other clubs get away with blue murder because they don't play by the rules. So now that we are honest, law abiding citizens, does that make us well run ? Should we as supporters tell the club we know best because other clubs are rorting the system and gaining an advantage ? Do clubs other than us "know best ?"

So you avoided the 'club knows best' question in regards to salary cap. Nice.

The point of including Daisys comments was to point out a side that you personally do not see. There are plenty of people who see things that you do not see. Doesn't make them right, or wrong, but spend enough time in the outer and you will hear every single player being cursed out by 'fans'. Some of them justified, many not. Are these people 'normal', depends on your position at the time. Its all relative.

Re: Reset Rants

Reply #377 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
So you avoided the 'club knows best' question in regards to salary cap. Nice.

The point of including Daisys comments was to point out a side that you personally do not see. There are plenty of people who see things that you do not see. Doesn't make them right, or wrong, but spend enough time in the outer and you will hear every single player being cursed out by 'fans'. Some of them justified, many not. Are these people 'normal', depends on your position at the time. Its all relative.

Thanks for the lesson in postmodernism - much appreciated. 

At no point did I say the club was infallible - what I said was the club (any club) is club is filled with professional people who know more about football and running a football club than the punters. A position which I consider to be accurate. Even if, as we saw in the Eliot era, the club was run by dinosaurs who achieved success under an old system, and were unable or unwilling to adopt to a new system. Did the club make bad decisions at the time ? Of course. Should we hand over the reins to amateurs because they know cheating is dodgy ? No thanks.

I was more vociferous than just about anyone in respect of sacking Ratts - I thought it was a sh1t decision then, and nothing that's happened since has caused me to change my mind. Do I know more than the club ? Is it a case of Paully knows best, and the club is full of numb nuts ?

The club does know best, but that doesn't mean they are not capable of stuff ups. Some people might believe that there is a yawning chasm between success and failure, that the distance between 1st and 18th is enormous. I think it's much closer than most people think.

Re: Reset Rants

Reply #378 –
The Ratten decision Paul on the face of it and with the benefit of hindsight looks poor, but we have no idea what keeping him as coach would have meant.


It may have resulted in an even poorer outcome (which seems difficult to imagine)  but perhaps a Murphy Gibbs departure back then...  We'll never know and must simply respect that the club made its bed and is now lying in it.

It might have turned into a flag (doubtful our key positions weren't great and our midfield has never looked even close to as effective as it was without Judd and Murphy in full flight).

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Reset Rants

Reply #379 –
I don't deny any of that Thry.

Re: Reset Rants

Reply #380 –
Once you sack them you lose the right to say how things would have turned out.

How would a Pagan side with Judd, a young Kreuzer and a maturing Gibbs and Murphy have fared.
A Ratten side with Cripps and Docherty
Malthouse with the current list ???


You cant say.
We'll never know (but I think some folk might have a guess ;D )

Re: Reset Rants

Reply #381 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Once you sack them you lose the right to say how things would have turned out.

How would a Pagan side with Judd, a young Kreuzer and a maturing Gibbs and Murphy have fared.
A Ratten side with Cripps and Docherty
Malthouse with the current list ???


You cant say.
We'll never know (but I think some folk might have a guess ;D )
I'd take your thoughts a little further and say:

How would a Pagan side with Judd, a young Kreuzer, a maturing Gibbs, Murphy and a decent list manager (eg SOS) have fared.
A Ratten side with Cripps, Docherty and a decent list manager (eg SOS)
Malthouse with the current list and a decent list manager (eg SOS) ???

Its been a bug bear of mine for years and years. Finally, we seem to have someone with at least a half a brain in charge of that area.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Reset Rants

Reply #382 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Once you sack them you lose the right to say how things would have turned out.

How would a Pagan side with Judd, a young Kreuzer and a maturing Gibbs and Murphy have fared.
A Ratten side with Cripps and Docherty
Malthouse with the current list ???


You cant say.
We'll never know (but I think some folk might have a guess ;D )

Not disagreeing Lods but the club has a little more to go on when they make their decisions wouldn't you say?
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Reset Rants

Reply #383 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Once you sack them you lose the right to say how things would have turned out.

How would a Pagan side with Judd, a young Kreuzer and a maturing Gibbs and Murphy have fared.
A Ratten side with Cripps and Docherty
Malthouse with the current list ???


You cant say.
We'll never know (but I think some folk might have a guess ;D )

I'm going to take an very educated guess and I reckon, like most of us too, I'd be right.

Pagan would've still been on the bottom, Ratten needed SOS with him, not Wayne Hughes, as that could've changed heaps. Malthouse would've been more than useful with this list 10 years previous, alot more, but at the end he was past it and the players weren't playing for him.

Re: Reset Rants

Reply #384 –
Quote from: laj – on
I'm going to take an very educated guess and I reckon, like most of us too, I'd be right.

Pagan would've still been on the bottom, Ratten needed SOS with him, not Wayne Hughes, as that could've changed heaps. Malthouse would've been more than useful with this list 10 years previous, alot more, but at the end he was past it and the players weren't playing for him.

Yep
But yoú'll never know ...will you? ;)
 

Re: Reset Rants

Reply #387 –
I have been going thru the lists of all the clubs as I have been trying to get a handle on where we are in regards to the rebuild. I have broken all the players into three categories based on their year of birth: these being 97-99; 90-96; & 89 and earlier. Originally I was going to concentrate on the main list with the Rookies being an adjunct, but Geelong & Port Adelaide do not appear to have Rookies as such so I have lumped everybody in together. I have also had a look at the make up of the 97-99 group looking at how many top 30 players out of the draft as well as how many top 10. At what number you are drafted is a bit like birth weight and your Tertiary Enter Score, interesting at the time but not that relevant overall in your career. Logic tells us that the more early pick you have the most likely it is a club should have a good list into the future.

Team:         Top 10   Top 30   97-99    90-96  89+
Adelaide:       (0)        (4)        12          23      9
Brisbane:       (2)        (9)        15          25      5
Carlton:         (5)       (10)       19          17      9
Collingwood:  (1)        (2)        12          25      8
Essendon:      (3)        (5)        13          29      6
Fremantle:     (3)        (4)        14          24      6
Geelong:        (0)        (3)        13          25      7
Gold Coast:    (5)        (7)        18          22      5
GWS:             (3)        (9)        12          26      6
Hawthorn:      (0)        (2)        14          21     10
Melbourne:     (2)        (3)          9          30      5
North Melb:    (1)        (4)         16         24       5
Richmond:      (0)        (6)        13          26      6
Port Adelaide: (0)        (2)         14         26       5
St.Kilda:         (2)        (4)         11         30       4
Sydney:          (1)        (4)        14          24      8
West Coast:    (2)        (5)         16          22      7
West Bulldogs:(0)        (7)         13          26      5

What strikes me about the breakdown is how far out of kilter our list is compared to others, particular with that mid aged range group. Also in that mid range, I would think that players like O'Shea, Mullet, Graham & Shaw would be at the bottom end of our list. With our younger players, eight will move out of that group next year and seven the following, with only four or five younger aged people a year coming into the club over the next couple of years, I would expect that group to settle closer to the mean. We are also above average on older age range. Over the next three years we have three players moving into age group, Casboult, Jones & Lamb, so to get in balance of thiose three and the nine on the list, five or six would have to go.
Of the other teams, I would suggest that Essendon, Melbourne & St.Kilda are all in, so if their current plan doesn't work, they could be in trouble in the next couple of years, while Adelaide, Collingwood, Hawthorn, Geelong & Port Adelaide don't appear to have a lot coming through.

Re: Goaltracker 2018

Reply #388 –
The difference is that we have a future now.   Back then we had stuff all under 21 talent and our mature agers weren't giving us much.

Even if we recruit poorly from here in about 50 games we should improve significantly simply with what we have.

When mick was fired that wasn't the case.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Re: Goaltracker 2018

Reply #389 –
You presume we keep all of the young talent we have. Going to be a challenge