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Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2401 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Its funny how you continue to push the barrow that oversees governments are banning it....citing disinformation and secret agendas...

...at the same swallowing everything you are being fed by ours with an empty bowl asking "please sir, can i have some more".

Hypocrisy.


here, here.

I gather 20 nations in total have now paused the AZ vaccine.

Yet Scomo and his sycophantic clowns know better?

Right....

I'm still waiting for an ad campaign to be rolled out featuring Cathy Freeman, Kylie and Michael Clarke telling us how safe the vaccines are - they'd know for sure.
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2403 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Don't mention the fact that 13 nations in Europe have paused the use of AstraZ.

I can only go by the science says, and there is almost universal agreement that all the vaccines on offer are very good, and you should be happy and confident whichever one you receive. If you are correct, and there is a pecking order for the vaccines, then the system is corrupt, and the entire edifice of scientific recommendations and pronouncements needs to be called into question, because I have not heard a single medical expert attempt to steer patients towards one vaccine or the other.

There may well be 13 countries that have suspended AZ, but that leaves 180 odd that have not suspended it. I really don't know what to tell you. You clearly have made up your mind that the AZ is inferior, and I'm not sure another 100 pages of debate will sway you.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2404 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
I can only go by the science says, and there is almost universal agreement that all the vaccines on offer are very good, and you should be happy and confident whichever one you receive. If you are correct, and there is a pecking order for the vaccines, then the system is corrupt, and the entire edifice of scientific recommendations and pronouncements needs to be called into question, because I have not heard a single medical expert attempt to steer patients towards one vaccine or the other.

There may well be 13 countries that have suspended AZ, but that leaves 180 odd that have not suspended it. I really don't know what to tell you.

We're talking all the major European nations - not Montenegro and Sardinia!

And there are dozens of eminent scientists/doctors expressing concerns.....

Playing a consensus card - is facile.
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2405 –
Big politics and big $s are in play folks. The truth will be elusive.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2408 –
Quote from: flyboy77 – on

Speaking of probabilities, what is the chance of an otherwise healthy unvaccinated person becoming severely ill or worse from the virus in Australia?

Less than a shark attack for all age demographics. Even the uber oldies (in this country).

So, where does the risk/reward balance sit?

And don't start on the BS that is asymptomatic transmission.....
In the history of Australia, have sharks ever killed 900 people in one year(17/week)?

While it might be correct historically to compare the chances of COVID-19 virus death versus shark attacked death based on historical total figures, we aren't ever going to have a shark attack infect a whole block of flats, a retirement village, palliative care facility or fill a hospital full of patients to the brim.

At the moment Melbourne is detecting the COVID-19 virus in sewerage works all over the state, they do not know how it gets there, but it's found in remote geographically separated sites so it can only be getting there by a mobile vector like people or birds. They suspect some can be explained by people who have been infected recovered and are no getting a second dose, which based on global stats happens to a percentage of sufferers. But they fear it might be birds spreading it from treatment site to treatment site.

Complacency kills.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2409 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
At my mother in laws' hospital that she works at all the doctors got the Pfizer. She's a food monitor so she has been told that she gets the AstraZ, same as the cleaners.
We talked about this a week or two back, the Pfizer vaccine was the first to roll out weeks ahead of AstraZeneca, and health, quarantine and emergency workers got the first doses so by default they all got Pfizer.

You already know that because I know we have already discussed it.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2410 –
Quote from: flyboy77 – on
And there are dozens of eminent scientists/doctors expressing concerns.....

Playing a consensus card - is facile.
The only scientists that count in this debate are medical scientists and viral science professionals, having Bert the Seismologist from Texas, or Norbit the Seattle Computer scientist sign an anti-vaccine petition or self report on VAERS is meaningless.

That is why the general social media consensus is facile, because most opinions on the anti-vaccine front do not count, you may as well have a million monkeys on a million computers sign a million petitions.

The only consensus that counts is the experts and they are almost universally supportive of all the vaccine regimes, yet they too are allowed to have a favourite.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2411 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Its funny how you continue to push the barrow that oversees governments are banning it....citing disinformation and secret agendas...

...at the same swallowing everything you are being fed by ours with an empty bowl asking "please sir, can i have some more".

Hypocrisy.
No because we have global stats that expose the likely truth that can't be dismissed as opinion.

The actions so far of those nations fly in the face of the evidence, it is not supported by evidence.

I can't believe you accept such trivial evidence the vaccines aren't safe, while denying the weight of such overwhelming evidence the vaccines are safe. Hypocrisy?

FYI;
Adenovirus based vaccines have been around and researched since the 1970s.

mRNA vaccines like Pfizer and Moderna are being used the very first time, never before has mRNA vaccine made it past approval trials.

I really don't care which I get, but I have to highlight the hypocrisy of the anti-AstraZeneca / J&J claims! ( Assume the Anti-AstraZeneca people are also against J&J seeing they are functionally the same base adenovirus technology.)

Which seems ironic for Sth Africa, given they canned AstraZeneca and bought J&J? Perhaps there is another reason! :o
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2412 –
Quote from: LP – on
We talked about this a week or two back, the Pfizer vaccine was the first to roll out weeks ahead of AstraZeneca, and health, quarantine and emergency workers got the first doses so by default they all got Pfizer.

You already know that because I know we have already discussed it.
Wouldnt be because we have the AstraZ being locally produced by CSL @around 50 million doses.....cheaper for ScottyM obviously than buying Pfizer, JJ etc etc.....we have all talked about business/politics playing a part in Europe but you cant tell me its not the same here with CSL. The CSL blood plasma business in the USA has stalled due to Covid and lead time is about 6-9 months to get a return, accordingly the share price has dropped and both Scotty and CSL are doing each other a favor...

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2413 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Wouldnt be because we have the AstraZ being locally produced by CSL @around 50 million doses.....cheaper for ScottyM obviously than buying Pfizer, JJ etc etc.....we have all talked about business/politics playing a part in Europe but you cant tell me its not the same here with CSL. The CSL blood plasma business in the USA has stalled due to Covid and lead time is about 6-9 months to get a return, accordingly the share price has dropped and both Scotty and CSL are doing each other a favor...
You can't ignore the timeline @ElwoodBlues1.

How could the health workers at MBB's mother's work get AstraZeneca before we actually had any in the country? The first health workers only started getting AstraZeneca last week, the assertion the doctors only get Pfizer is rubbish!

MBB was posing the very same question a couple of weeks back, days before AstraZeneca even arrived in the country. The assertion/conspiracy is all built on social media rumours that are baseless. The irony being if you want to be worried about a new technology, it's the mRNA vaccines you should be more worried about! ;)

I notice you quote a lot of business / corporate investment related COVID-19 facts, I gather this comes from some corporate rag, for example the blood plasma business stalled comments you made above. What is the relevance of this downturn in altering vaccine production decisions? Aren't all those plasma business in the same boat because there are less blood donations, so there is no inherent bias across the board!

My main concern isn't funding CSL, it's why we are preferentially funding CSL for expanding old technologies, as I've mentioned before if mRNA proves safe and efficacious that older adenovirus technology could quickly become redundant. My associate asked this question to a top CSL executive at a recent sporting event, his response was they Feds will fund a second round of upgrades to include the new mRNA technologies anyway, upgrading capacity of the existing technologies was a faster to market situation! However, long term if the adenovirus route offers vaccines in a pill or nasal spray the old technology could win out, so I can understand why they aren't throwing the baby out with the bath water.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"
 

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2414 –
Clearly wrote she is to receive it.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!