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Topic: The rise.... and RISE of Marc Pittonet (Read 319367 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: The Ruck Division .... Is It Really Competent Enough ??

Reply #165 –
I agree with all of that.

I didn't want Jack in the ruck. He's too small and too slow to bring any x factor in there.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: The Ruck Division .... Is It Really Competent Enough ??

Reply #166 –
Young was a ruck at the Dogs
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: The Ruck Division .... Is It Really Competent Enough ??

Reply #167 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
I agree with all of that.

I didn't want Jack in the ruck. He's too small and too slow to bring any x factor in there.

My whole point is that you don't need 2 rucks. I've said that all along.

I think Jack brings plenty playing there, 6 clearances last week for example, but i'm not bothered if he doesn't play there. You can pretty much put anyone there.

Before Charlie went on his coleman medal winning season, i'd suggesting putting him there for a chopout. Same with Cripps.

Basically how today went, was McKay take it forward, Young take it back, Pittonet to take as many as he can get too.
We can do that every week and use the spot on the bench that TDK keeps warm on a smaller option to give us more run.

People hear 'ruck' and think jumping at centre bounces. That is only about 20% of the ruck contests and that only occurs at the start of the quarter and after goals. You can ensure Pittonet takes every single one of them relatively easily by bringing him onto the ground after a goal is scored, or obviously playing him there if he is already on. Majority of the ruck work is throw ins and throw ups when the rucks are side by side. Its a glorified marking contests that anyone can do.

Say no to 2 rucks!

Of course the other thing is with TDK out, Pittonet gets more ruck time and uses his tapwork to great advantage....so the mids gets better service as a result of TDK not playing as well.

Look, it all sounds very harsh on TDK, but i've got nothing against him, he just hasn't grown into the ruck (or any other position) like we would've liked. As a result, he isn't in our best 22.

Re: The Ruck Division .... Is It Really Competent Enough ??

Reply #168 –
Amen
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: The Ruck Division .... Is It Really Competent Enough ??

Reply #169 –
Been a few days and not a single person has gone into bat for TDK.

Perhaps people are starting to see what i see in terms of ruck balance, output, importance?

If rumours of TDK being out on the sauce are anything to go by, i fear the lad may never 'see the light' until its too late.

Re: The Ruck Division .... Is It Really Competent Enough ??

Reply #170 –
Do what ever needs to be done to get him to a trade by seasons end and get something back of quality while people are still interested in him.
This digital world is too much for us insects to understand.

Re: The Ruck Division .... Is It Really Competent Enough ??

Reply #171 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Been a few days and not a single person has gone into bat for TDK.

Perhaps people are starting to see what i see in terms of ruck balance, output, importance?

If rumours of TDK being out on the sauce are anything to go by, i fear the lad may never 'see the light' until its too late.

I was someone who went in to bat for TDK, and still would... but... what he has served up in 2023, to be as polite as I can be, has been very disappointing.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17
 

Re: The Ruck Division .... Is It Really Competent Enough ??

Reply #172 –
His trade value after round 6 is probably considerably less than pre-season. ::)

Re: The Ruck Division .... Is It Really Competent Enough ??

Reply #173 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
I was someone who went in to bat for TDK, and still would... but... what he has served up in 2023, to be as polite as I can be, has been very disappointing.

His form has been up and down, but he's not exactly alone. Plenty of our boys are struggling for form. He's definitely worth a 2 year deal, and definitely worth persisting with. Like all big blokes, he will take time to get his sh1t together. He's too mobile and too athletic to be simply labelled a ruckman.

Re: The Ruck Division .... Is It Really Competent Enough ??

Reply #174 –
He's probably worth more to us persisting for two seasons than trying to trade him.
A lot will depend on counter offers....and he'll end up where he wants to end up.

The thing is...while big guys do take time, he is five years into the system, he'll be 24 by seasons end, how much longer before he starts to realise some of  his potential.

Re: The Ruck Division .... Is It Really Competent Enough ??

Reply #175 –
Quote from: Lods – on
He's probably worth more to us persisting for two seasons than trying to trade him.
A lot will depend on counter offers....and he'll end up where he wants to end up.

The thing is...while big guys do take time, he is five years into the system, he'll be 24 by seasons end, how much longer before he starts to realise some of  his potential.

As a ruckman usually 24-26 is when they start to impact hence the 2 year deal
Let’s go BIG !

Re: The Ruck Division .... Is It Really Competent Enough ??

Reply #176 –
Like for like at the same stage of a career TDK would be well ahead of our other options.

Quote from: Baggers – on
I was someone who went in to bat for TDK, and still would... but... what he has served up in 2023, to be as polite as I can be, has been very disappointing.
The problem is the team form line influences the perceptions, ignoring the highlight reels from 2022, TDK has statistically improved from 2022. Whether the stats are valuable ranking tool or not is one issue, but if nothing else they are at least a relevant measure.

By the same measure Pitto has actually gone backwards since 2021, yet we would all probably rate his ruck work at least equal to if not ahead of TDK at the moment. But I think it is horses for courses and my reasoning follows.

In fairness it's not realistic to make a direct comparison as they are polar opposite players, Pitto has only hit the scoreboard in one of his eight seasons because he is a D50 type ruck that sits behind play and closes space. TDK is a F50 type ruck that pushes forward and links play stretching opposition defences. One assists the KPDs, the other assists the KPFs.

I think sorting out the tap work is far easier than trying to turn one or the other into the opposite type of player. For me we should be playing both and using them accordingly when we want to set or control game momentum.

Midfield dominance has very little to do with tap work, you can often have tap dominance like when we had Warnock and also the way we have Mirkov in the VFL, and still be soundly beaten in the Midfield. Our problem isn't so much not having tap dominance, but not being able to put the brakes on opposition when we aren't winning the clearances.

You could run TDK as a Blicsav's type ruck, and give him the task to tackle ahead of winning tap work, ideally you want both, but rarely is that actually possible.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: The Ruck Division .... Is It Really Competent Enough ??

Reply #177 –
De Koning has played 46 games, which is 2 seasons.

2018 - 2 games
2019 - 0 games
2020 - 7 games
2021 - 13 games
2022 - 19 games

He may turn out to be no good, my point is that it is too early to tell.

Re: The Ruck Division .... Is It Really Competent Enough ??

Reply #178 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
He may turn out to be no good, my point is that it is too early to tell.
By ruck standards at 23 TDK is a baby and fans talk like his papers have already been stamped.

Fans should take note of the way Luke Jackon's output has fallen in the absence of having Gawn as a partner, it's a massive tell about benefits of running a strong ruck duo. Jackson's stats are stable but his game day influence has plummeted, which is because 1+1 adds up to more than 2, when you run 2 strong rucks you don't just get twice the player you degrade the opposition at the same time!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: The Ruck Division .... Is It Really Competent Enough ??

Reply #179 –
Quote from: LP – on
..................

You could run TDK as a Blicsav's type ruck, and give him the task to tackle ahead of winning tap work, ideally you want both, but rarely is that actually possible.

I can see the similarity and I can see the potential for De Koning to develop into a Blicavs type ruck man, but we need patience. You don’t need to look back too far to see that Blicavs was labelled a spud by all and sundry. And now regarded as one of their most important players.