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Topic: AFL Rd 17 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS (Read 21897 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL Rd 17 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #76 –
Quote from: pertz – on
Again,  can we get a separate topic thread for the ruck debate - getting really tiresome.
This is not about ruck @pertz, it's about the structure of our bench and how we can provide backup for KPPs including rucks and our thin KPD stocks. Most of us, actually nearly all of us, have already posted that we accept one or two rucks as per the MC strategy.

@Kruddler wants to make is specifically about Pitto because he can't let go of his earlier claims, and he largely ignores response like mine own or @Thryleon and then re-introduces Pitto. Even making absurd connections between selection and blokes like Ollie Hollands,  Fogarty or Owies, like if Pitto comes in we lose them all instantly into the universal void!

Kruddler will never stop, he's so conflicted he can't let it go, even when posting his own contradictions.

But that doesn't mean we can afford to leave the KPP issue, as it stands it's our greatest weakness.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 17 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #77 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
So how about we deal with reality and stop trying to play the 'what if' game AFTER the fact.
You'll post any sort of deflecting rubbish rather than answer the basic question;

What do we do if this again happens to one of our solo KPPs on GF day, the single point failure we deliberately take into games actually happens, just surrender?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"
 

Re: AFL Rd 17 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #78 –
Quote from: LP – on
This is not about ruck @pertz, it's about the structure of our bench and how we can provide backup for KPPs including rucks and our thin KPD stocks.

@Kruddler wants to make is specifically about Pitto because he can't let go of his earlier claims, and he largely ignores response like mine own or @Thryleon and then re-introduces Pitto. Even making absurd connections between selection and blokes like Ollie Hollands,  Fogarty or Owies, like if Pitto comes in we lose them all instantly into the universal void!

Kruddler will never stop, he's so conflicted he can't let it go, even when posting his own contradictions.

But that doesn't mean we can afford to leave the KPP issue, as it stands it's our greatest weakness.

@pertz
Apologies, but this needs to be sorted out.

LP posts that he doesn't want to use the likes of Harry (or Charlie) or Cripps or Kennedy or risk any KPPs in the ruck because they are more likely to get injured.
LP posts that we need to have another KPP on the bench in case we do get an injury to one.
LP says he is NOT specifically talking about a ruck as KP cover, but he does state that he doesn't want KPPs to be in the ruck. If you don't have KPPs in the ruck then all that is left is other rucks.
LP insists that he is NOT talking about Pittonet though.
LP instead wants some kind of mystery player we don't have on our list to do that role.

LP doesn't post anything about this in the pre-game, or in the in-game thread when we are dominating.
Instead he makes himself out to be some oracle when we get injuries in the game.

I agree, its all about team balance.
My barrow that i've been pushing is that we do not need a 2nd ruck (for team balance).
However, we do need a #2 KPD.
That would allow Kemp and McGovern to play 'smaller' and IF an injury to a KPP crops up in the game, they are there to 'step up' and temporarily fill that role.

Anyone can fill in for a ruck on any given day should you get an injury. We've proven it can work when we've played zero rucks twice and won both. Obviously there have been games where our ruck has played part of a game before being injured too. You do not need a ruck as cover for a ruck.


So.....LP.....who (with the OBVIOUS BENEFIT OF HINDSIGHT) should we have played this game?

Re: AFL Rd 17 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #79 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
So.....LP.....who (with the OBVIOUS BENEFIT OF HINDSIGHT) should we have played this game?
If we didn't play Pitto to allow a reshuffle, we could have played Young.

Because LP would rather see a viable KPP backup on the bench, who might get smashed in the 2nd ruck role, rather than risking our Coleman or Brownlow medallists for 3-1/2 qtrs of blunt grunt work. At least Young if not in the ruck allows a reshuffle when Weiters got injured.

Even as poor as Young can be, if he was the one chosen he'd still be useful in the ruck or KPD roles, and have more influence and impact than Fantasia at pretty much any location on the field.

Of course if you want to leverage AFL capable strengths, you can go with Pitto and restructure the rest, and Pitto for Fantasia wouldn't be a loss based on yesterday.

But yesterday, no options, we had no choice but to send our 1st choice ruck and only KPD back onto the field for 3 qtrs of ineffective injury carrying pain and suffering simply because of an MC decision. That won't work in a GF.

Making futuristic statements like, we need to draft one later this year, doesn't solve our KPP issue this season.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 17 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #80 –
For all this debate, in my opinion we may as well go with our strengths.

We have a strong but slowish midfield, we have two AFL quality 1st ruck options, we might as well do our best to leverage the ruck resource to give our slower superstar Mids 1st use of the footy.

Given 1st use of the footy our Mids can look fast, with quick decisions and skilful ball use, in this regard 1st use patches over a lot of issues diminishing the deficits.

Not having 1st use amplifies the deficits.

How that is managed is up to the coach and the MC, but it's crazy to leave our team deliberately in a shortfall when we have the resource available.

We have an excess of AFL capable;
 - KPFs
 - Mids
 - Rucks

We don't have an excess of AFL capable KPDs, we need this addressed, in someway this season.

If we can't win a game with our potential ruck and midfield dominance, given our elite F50 KPF resource, it's not our ruck and midfield that is the problem!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 17 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #81 –
Quote from: LP – on
If we didn't play Pitto to allow a reshuffle, we could have played Young.

Because LP would rather see a viable KPP backup on the bench, who might get smashed in the 2nd ruck role, rather than risking our Coleman or Brownlow medallists for 3-1/2 qtrs of blunt grunt work. At least Young if not in the ruck allows a reshuffle when Weiters got injured.

Even as poor as Young can be, if he was the one chosen he'd still be useful in the ruck or KPD roles, and have more influence and impact than Fantasia at pretty much any location on the field.

Of course if you want to leverage AFL capable strengths, you can go with Pitto and restructure the rest, and Pitto for Fantasia wouldn't be a loss based on yesterday.

But yesterday, no options, we had no choice but to send our 1st choice ruck and only KPD back onto the field for 3 qtrs of pain and suffering simply because of MC decisions. That won't work in a GF.

Ahh....Young will fix all our problems.

How many times have you called for his inclusion this year?

Re: AFL Rd 17 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #82 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Ahh....Young will fix all our problems.

How many times have you called for his inclusion this year?
None at all probably, as I think there is a better option, but Young would still be better than what we went with yesterday.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 17 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #83 –
Re Ruck posts...there is a special ruck thread for this discussion. Do a copy and paste and move this discussion into that thread.
After an unexpected loss folks can get a little heated.
This is a forum for discussion and debate but we can't demand folks  respond to posts, or the timing of those responses. That's up to the individual. It's a place for discussion and not for lectures.
Carry on.

Re: AFL Rd 17 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #84 –
Quote from: LP – on
We have a strong but slowish midfield,

....

but it's crazy to leave our team deliberately in a shortfall when we have the resource available.
Agree, so why not add more, faster runners to go with our elite stronger mids. Not make it worse by including 2 rucks. Which only benefits us the 20% of the time our first ruck isn't rucking.


Quote from: LP – on
We don't have an excess of AFL capable KPDs, we need this addressed, in someway this season.

If we can't win a game with our potential ruck and midfield dominance, given our elite F50 KPF resource, it's not our ruck and midfield that is the problem!
We don't need it addressed this season, we need it addressed every off-season, which is what i've been saying and why Ben McKay non-event is a huge issue.

Every year we buy what the list management players are selling us. "Nothing available".
Well thats gone on for 7 years now and that is simply not possible so time to see through the BS (which i and others have) and actually solve the problem!

Re: AFL Rd 17 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #85 –
Quote from: Lods – on
This is a forum for discussion and debate but we can't demand folks  respond to posts, or the timing of those responses. 
@Lods don't give the timing stuff oxygen, @Thryleon and myself were probably typing at the same time, the initial comments were just a cheap rock throwing deflection tactic.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 17 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #86 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
We don't need it addressed this season, we need it addressed every off-season, which is what i've been saying and why Ben McKay non-event is a huge issue.
Who goes out of yesterday's 22 for Ben McKay, without diminishing your precious bench time for Mids?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 17 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #87 –
Quote from: LP – on
None at all probably, as I think there is a better option, but Young would still be better than what we went with yesterday.

Oh none. But it is SO obvious.....isn't it?

So what is the better option? We are all waiting for LP to solve our KPD issues.....

Re: AFL Rd 17 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #88 –
Quote from: LP – on
Who goes out of yesterday's 22 for Ben McKay, without diminishing your precious bench time for Mids?

Move cottrell to cover Fantasia. Move Cincotta to cover Cottrell. Move Kemp/McGovern to cover Cincotta.

Tada.

Re: AFL Rd 17 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #89 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Move cottrell to cover Fantasia. Move Cincotta to cover Cottrell. Move Kemp/McGovern to cover Cincotta.

Tada.
It's not different from our currently available option, it has the same affect on the bench time you are so precious about.

You can't have your cake and eat it.

Further, moving Cincotta as well as one of McGovern/Kemp out of D50 for McKay reduces our run and carry of the back line, all your shuffles are faster, more agile and quite possibly more aerobic than Ben McKay. You rob Peter to pay Paul, and do nothing to address the Midfield issue if the KPP that goes down is our one and only viable ruck. Thank god you aren't our coach.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"