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Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #135 –
It wasn't even the worst loss I've seen in the last 12 months ;)

Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #136 –
Quote from: Lods – on
It wasn't even the worst loss I've seen in the last 12 months ;)
which one did you think was worse? 

Anecdotally, my memory is pretty good, and despite what happened for most of last season, even the Hawthorn loss didn't sting like this one because we had a few break down in game.

Adelaide?

Maybe but even that one wasn't because we played 3 quarters of uncompetitive footy it was a few errors and not capitalising with a last minute winner. 

Collingwood?  Twice?

Nope, they weren't worse.  St. Kilda?  Half our side was out and they were in form. 

Gws?  Another injury mess and we almost pinched it, but we're up early playing well enough to suggest we'd win. 

Sydney?  Grand finalists on their home deck.

Port?  Nope missing H and the injury rot had started.

Doggies?  No good.

Brisbane in the finals?  Was a free hit.  We didn't look likely heading in and they went on to win the flag.

Geelong?  Yeah that stung a bit but they weren't that bad and we played dumb footy and again almost roared back into it.

Not one of those losses compares to the mess of Thursday.

I've thought about this long and hard.  We've been in Richmond's shoes.  Brave losses is all we gave, and the few wins we registered were against mid table sides who thought they were better than they are.  Sure Sydney lost to Richmond last year.  At the mcg.  It stuffed them mentally and probably lost them the grand final, and gave Brisbane supreme confidence heading in. They have much better mental fortitude than we do.



The warning sign for this one, is that if Richmond are going to be where everyone thinks they will be this season, we are a bog average team.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #137 –
The Hawthorn one was worse by a long way.
Folks are losing their perspective based on their own expectations.
They thought that we would win easily.
They had it locked away.
We didn't.
All of a sudden we're a team full of no-hopers.
Player deficiencies are being exaggerated.
Haynes is the worst player ever to pull on a jumper (yet he's had 18 with 66% efficiency)

They've made a judgement that Richmond are a basket case.
That they have made no advances over the off-season.

We dominated for a quarter.
The game was still in the balance well into the last.
But our system and structure failed us.
:"Worst loss in years, or ever" is based purely on what people expected to happen.
Folks might want to revisit the period 2002-7 to see what a real basket case is.

Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #138 –
Quote from: Lods – on
The Hawthorn one was worse by a long way.
Folks are losing their perspective based on their own expectations.
They thought that we would win easily.
They had it locked away.
We didn't.
All of a sudden we're a team full of no-hopers.
Player deficiencies are being exaggerated.
Haynes is the worst player ever to pull on a jumper (yet he's had 18 with 66% efficiency)

They've made a judgement that Richmond are a basket case.
That they have made no advances over the off-season.

We dominated for a quarter.
The game was still in the balance well into the last.
But our system and structure failed us.
:"Worst loss in years, or ever" is based purely on what people expected to happen.
Folks might want to revisit the period 2002-7 to see what a real basket case is.

Sorry Lods, losing after being 41 point up against the wooden spooners with umpteen kids under 50 games goes to the top of the tree for me.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #139 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Quote from: Lods – on
The Hawthorn one was worse by a long way.
Folks are losing their perspective based on their own expectations.
They thought that we would win easily.
They had it locked away.
We didn't.
All of a sudden we're a team full of no-hopers.
Player deficiencies are being exaggerated.
Haynes is the worst player ever to pull on a jumper (yet he's had 18 with 66% efficiency)

They've made a judgement that Richmond are a basket case.
That they have made no advances over the off-season.

We dominated for a quarter.
The game was still in the balance well into the last.
But our system and structure failed us.
:"Worst loss in years, or ever" is based purely on what people expected to happen.
Folks might want to revisit the period 2002-7 to see what a real basket case is.

Sorry Lods, losing after being 41 point up against the wooden spooners with umpteen kids under 50 games goes to the top of the tree for me.

That's the thing though.
And it's where I'm having trouble following the logic.
They're not the woodenspooners....they're the 2024 woodenspooners.
We don't know what we played on Thursday...and we won't know for several weeks.
We might be surprised.
They may be as bad as we thought.
Then again, they may not be.
But anyone making that judgement now is guessing.
The thing about youth is they will sometimes surprise because they don't know where the limits are.
That was something we saw with Hawthorn last season.

Momentum is a huge thing in the modern game.
Lose it and it can throttle you.

My only issue with the performance is that I didn't see the pressure and intensity. Things like multiple players in tackles. It's stuff we're capable of. We need to see it, especially this week.
Otherwise the "worst performance ever" may be ahead of us.

Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #140 –
Quote from: Lods – on
That's the thing though.
And it's where I'm having trouble following the logic.

Im sorry, I cant help you with that.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #141 –
Look I can't change folks opinions.
We saw what we saw, and interpreted the result based on our own perspectives of watching the game over the years.
I know for certain that there are dozens of results that concerned and disappointed me much more than this one...it's not even close.
I think there is a very real sense of 'disappointment being tied to expectations.'
If you'd pencilled this one in as a win, it will sting much more than if you considered the possibility of an upset.
In the end what really matters is not what we think, it's what the players think...and what they do about it.

Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #143 –
Lods, you mention that we dominated for a quarter.  Surely  our inability to dominate for no more than that is simply a continuation of the form that has kept us rooted to the bottom half of the ladder for so many seasons.

An excuse offered for our mediocre form over the years relates to the high number of injuries we have had each pre-season causing players to miss training and resulting in their never being able to recover their form fully during the season.  That excuse cannot be used this season.

 With the return of Silvagni and Docherty, together with new blood added to the list, supporters could be excused for expecting a performance that would give them hope for the season.

I hoped we would win, but if we did not we would at least show promise.  No wonder supporters are angry, the second half was an embarrassment.  Some of the mistakes were almost comical - what you see when people are having a kick to kick session in a park.

I know that the club is under pressure following the number of complaints from supporters. Let us hope we do not have a repeat performance this week.



Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #144 –
You can say what you like about expectations heading into the game and the level of disappointment being commensurate with it, but as soon as we were 41 points up in the second quarter every single Carlton person would have expected us to at worst win by 20 from there despite being challenged unless we had a ridiculous turn of events.

That would be an improvement over what happened.  The level of disappointment has nothing to do with pre game expectations.  It's in game.  That's the issue.  Are they last years wooden spooners or this year's battlers that finish mid table?  They won't be playing finals i don't think.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #145 –
Every year we start the season with high hopes.
We think “This could be our year!”

We’ve been looking forward to this game all summer for a couple of reasons.
1)   Richmond are hopeless… a basket case
2)   We could not possibly have as bad a season injury wise as last year.
So naturally expectations were high. Anything under a ten-goal win was not going to be satisfactory for many folks.

When it came to the crunch-
1)   Richmond may not be as hopeless as we thought (that will be proven, or not, in coming weeks)
2)   Newman goes down with a ‘seasoner’, then Jagger, then Elijah needs time away. There’s three who would no doubt have been round one selections. Charlie doesn’t get up, that’s four. Walsh has an interrupted pre-season. There are rumours all week that Harry isn’t 100% and may miss. All of that should be something that a team with good depth can cover. But things like the Hollands situation are the kind of distraction you don’t need going into the first game of the season.

There seem to be two issues with the result. The first revolves around skills. First games of the season often feature some scrappy disposal. Our disposal efficiency last season was around 73%. On Thursday night it was 65%. Our forward 50 efficiency was 38%. Our average last year was 49%.
Those are things that can be improved upon, especially the forward 50 efficiency with a bit more structure and system. We had 65 inside 50s. That’s more than just about every other game we played last year, but strangely exactly the same as the corresponding game against Richmond. The difference was 12 goals rather than 9.

The second and more important issue is the fact that we have these lapses where our pressure and intensity drops off and we get multiple goals kicked against us. That’s the much bigger issue and that goes to the mental strength of the playing group. I’m not sure how you coach that because it goes to the character of the player.
We will see in the coming weeks whether Thursday is the measure of this side. How they respond will tell you a bit about them individually and as a group.

Voss is now on shaky ground. We all know how this ends, and while injuries were a good ‘excuse’ for last season, it wont cut mustard this year.

Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #146 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
You can say what you like about expectations heading into the game and the level of disappointment being commensurate with it, but as soon as we were 41 points up in the second quarter every single Carlton person would have expected us to at worst win by 20 from there despite being challenged unless we had a ridiculous turn of events.

I didn't!
I learnt on the 26th September 1970 that it's not over until it's over. ;)

Thry...it's all about expectations.
I considered the possibility that if we weren't there at the start or had one of our lapses we could lose.
As a result I'm disappointed...but not surprised.
I'm looking forward to seeing how they respond.

Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #147 –
Quote from: Lods – on
I didn't!
I learnt on the 26th September 1970 that it's not over until it's over. ;)
Yep, it's not just about luck anymore, there is a technical defect in the design process.

It's not just the players either.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"
 

Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #148 –
We were terrible in the match sim agains the Saints
I felt we were clinical and cohesive in the hit out against the Giants.
We were abhorrent against Richmond.
Does this mean we will come out all guns blazing on Thurs night?
I doubt it but you never know, depends how deep the mental demons have dug in.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond

Reply #149 –
Whether or not Richmond are a basket case or not will play out over the season and potentially justify some people concerns.

Reality is, that is somewhat irrelevent when you are expected to be a top side. Someone who is in their premiership window.  You ultimately give up a 41 point lead and there is no obvious turning point (ie jnjury) and end up with a 56(?) point turnaround.

The fact it happened against last year's bottom side just adds an extra bit of sting to that.


Yes, it was one that said i was very uneasy about this match due to who was left out of the side and the fact the side picked itself based on injuries rather than talent/form.
However, what happened once the match started should never have happened once we got the lead we did. Inability to put the team away is one thing. Inability to protect such big lead is another.