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Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #60 –
Quote from: LordLucifer – on
Have a read of this :

Quote
The Blues coach wasn’t fretting despite a 0-3 start to the season, suggesting there would be a greater focus on what needs to be “reinforced” to build better habits, as opposed to changing things up.

“In the context of the season, we’re at the start, so there’s plenty of runway,” he said.

“But we’ve also got feedback to suggest we’ve got to get better. We’ve got some real parts of our game that are a bit more obvious than others.

“When you watch us play and see the better parts of our games, it’s worth persisting with. But the message will be pretty simple from me, make sure we get really clear on our roles, continue to keep playing us and at the right times we need to put composure in games and we’ll keep coaching it.”

I've never read such a trumped up load of bullsh1t in my life.

Instead of admitting the facts, just trot out a heap of pure deflection & obfuscation.

This to me is a strong sign that our coach hasn't got any more tricks in his kitbag & is just making up excuses to make it sound like he does.

....and this reaction from you in the reason these things need to be made because people can't see past a simple 0-3 column.

Last years premiers had the same
 

Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #61 –
Other than Harry and Charlie,  the last player to kick five goals in a game for Carlton was Matthew Wright  I believe. My one criticism of Jack as a forward was he never kicked a bag but he looked very comfortable down back last night. Our mantra going forward in the near future when we are going forward should be kick it to Kemp. Having two or three people hanging off Curnow andM McKay means he should be free. We lost faith in picking the best option and kept banging it to Charlie when under pressure. When we sent it to Young and Kemp we looked so much more dangerous. 
The problem of our forward line is demonstrated by the fact 10 of our 11 goals came from our tall forwards and only one, our first, came from a small forward in Motlop. Nothing from our midfield and nothing from running goals. Motlop, Moir and E.Hollands all look like they can kick goals as does Williams if he can stay fit. This would be my forward line.
Even though Haynes played better, I still don't think there is any future in him, Evans, Docherty, or McGovern, who continues to do stupid things each week. Young has shown he can play forward, back and in the ruck but cannot seem to be able to do any of them consistently. He makes bad decisions and his skills let him down but he is the perfect backup big man to have on your list. I like to have a 200cm defender and I would like to see Lemmey given the opportunity. I would like to see Cowan become a running half back in the Ange Christou -- Kevin Hall mould. I thought we became more vulnerable to D50 stoppages when O.Hollands went up the ground after Williams got injured and Boyd came on. I think our back seven should be Silvagni, Cowan, O.Hollands, Weitering, Saad, Boyd and Lemmey over Young.
Our midfield lacks pace but if we are going to play Walsh, Cripps, Cerra, Hewitt and Acres, which we should, then the last two spots should go to players with some pace. I would be looking at Wilson and  Binns until the Camporeale boys are ready. The Sub should always be someone who has pace.

Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #62 –
It's that 0-3 figure that has folks worked up.
And we really can't ignore the importance of the win/loss.
It gets more important with every passing week,
But if we'd got over the line last night the thread would be completely different

There would still be criticism of players like Haynes -17 kicks, 10 marks (best on the ground) 521 metres gained (most by a Carlton player) but the poor disposal efficiency (59%) would have outweighed all that for a lot of folks ;)
But generally the thread would be a lot more positive.
It was an important game in the scheme of things.

Here's a question though....Does anyone think our general play, effort and intensity hasn't seen an improvement each week .
The Richmond loss was a shocker.
Following that we were expected to be blown away by the Hawks...we were better, and the margin was nowhere near what some folks expected.
 We were underdogs for the Bulldogs game. Last night we led for around a 100 minutes. The effort and intensity was much better and in the end it  couldn't be maintained. Once again inefficiency at crucial times cost us the game.

I'm not happy with 0-3 but I am happy to see effort, pressure and improvement.
Our defence is holding up really well-
Scores against  82, 80,83
We're getting plenty of forward opportunities...lots of inside 50s
The forward structure and efficiency is where we are losing games

Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #63 –
I do like your optimism and agree the effort and pressure night was excellent.

But we get exhausted because we don’t get bang for our buck with our possessions.  Why can not one player drill a kick into our f50 to a leading forward? Honestly I don’t believe  there was one direct kick - just big high kicks banged in. Can’t recall who it was but kicked into - i think Young in the 50 - and the kick was so slow and high that of course it gave ample opp for the defenders to get to it! The kick was under zero pressure also! Drives me nuts, that’s skill errors!

Sure Haynes might have those figures but I also saw plenty of piss poor effort from him and no tough commanding play at all! He is a senior player ffs, stand up!

And not sure what is worse - McG having time to think or not - you can never rely on him consistently.

Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #64 –
Same old same old. Games we pencil in as wins preseason we find excuses for when we fail. Year after year after year. We blame injuries we blame luck we blame umpires, we blame thet coach but IMO the reality is our list is overrated by fans and some in the media that like to talk us up based on one decent year making it to a prelim in 23. That years results were the worst result for the club as they bought into all the hype and thought just resign all 'the star players' allow for natural improvement and we are there. WRONG !    

We have at best 9-10 genuine top level players in Cripps Weitering, TDK, a decent gap to Charlie, Harry, Jack, Cerra, Hewitt, Kemp and maybe Walsh. The balance of the list is where the issues lie as this group shows flashes of brilliance when it's going our way but the minute the pressure is turned up they and some in the top list too make dumb decisions and just can't execute despite their best efforts and why we get over run time and time again when the opposition turn up the heat.  We are known in the industry to go to water when the heat is applied. 

You can change the coach if you want but if the list demographic doesn't improve is just doing the Carlton thing again where we get a small sugar fix before returning back to an underachieving club.
 
I said it after R1 - where too from here is my question. Do we change tack and go backwards again to a mini rebuild or get older blokes in who have 2-3 years left to try upgrade the bottom tier on our list?

Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #65 –
I really don’t think that we could have played much better given our game plan and the troops on the ground.

Haynes was ok last night and his one notable clanger resulted from Walsh hand passing to him when he was under immense pressure - that’s on Walsh.

Notwithstanding a couple of goals from Young, the group of Evans, Young, McGovern and now unfortunately Docherty won’t take us forward and as others have said we’ll need to experiment - more tweaks than wholesale changes.

Players that I’d like to introduce are as follows
- Matt Carroll for Docherty/Williams (if injured). Looks like he can play and has some dash.
- Corey Durdin or Ashton Moir for Evans. Durdin was a very exciting prospect only 2 years ago and Moir has class that’s hard to come by but needs to lift his intensity
- Binns or Wilson or Campo or Lord based on form.
- Lemmey for Young/Mckay - I’m not at all sold on Lemmey but we all know that Young is not the answer, so worth a try.

McGovern is a hard one / we all look at him and see pace, ability to intercept and distribute but the reality is that he simply can’t hold structure and his decision making is appalling -Silvagni, Weitering and Haynes provide enough tall cover down back, with the run of Saad, Carroll, Boyd and potentially Binns or Wilson. We need some young boys to stand up.

A forward line of Lemmey or Mackay, Curnow, Kemp, Moir/Motlop, Durdin, Fog is better.

Getting Evans, Yoiung, McGovern and Docherty out of the side may help and we’ll then need to clear out Fanatasia, Haynes along with these guys at year end. Hollands is just a player/very average  and if we’re any good he won’t be making the side.

Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #66 –
The only adequate replacement for Williams is lij hollands.

The rest are hail Mary's with only will white an unknown quantity.  Moir is a second year player with currently a light body and minimal tank.

Until our season is completely dead we need to reward effort and form as much as possible and now it's on those on the cusp to come to the party, press for selection and perform once in. 

Look no further than Lewis Young for the example.  He's thus far been mich better than anyone thought this season, because he's giving it a red hot go.  Where are the others?  It's why I'm not bagging out Evans.  He's on his 3rd club, he's occupying spot 46 on the list because players further up it have been ruled out for the year.  If he's playing we have no other options that are doing their bit.  He's an easy target to bag for the right reasons, but doesn't deserve the ire.   Go higher up the list.   Mcgovern was one that really was found wanting yesterday late.  Dropped a couple of efforts that he's usually safe with and we couldn't get the ball in hand.

We are desperately missing Newman.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #67 –
Quote from: LordLucifer – on
Have a read of this :

Quote
The Blues coach wasn’t fretting despite a 0-3 start to the season, suggesting there would be a greater focus on what needs to be “reinforced” to build better habits, as opposed to changing things up.

“In the context of the season, we’re at the start, so there’s plenty of runway,” he said.

“But we’ve also got feedback to suggest we’ve got to get better. We’ve got some real parts of our game that are a bit more obvious than others.

“When you watch us play and see the better parts of our games, it’s worth persisting with. But the message will be pretty simple from me, make sure we get really clear on our roles, continue to keep playing us and at the right times we need to put composure in games and we’ll keep coaching it.”

I've never read such a trumped up load of bullsh1t in my life.

Instead of admitting the facts, just trot out a heap of pure deflection & obfuscation.

This to me is a strong sign that our coach hasn't got any more tricks in his kitbag & is just making up excuses to make it sound like he does.  

100%.  And this is the same bs he's been spewing out for the past 18 months or so.    He's right up there with federal pollies  -  can talk lots of white noise and spin for 10-15 minutes but actually say Sweet FA.  Twelve months or so ago I was slowly coming around to MV,  but now that's all out the window.  He has no answers,  that's plainly obvious...   2 wins from last 12?   People keep making excuses here  -   diehard fans, so that's understandable  -  the time for reasons and excuses is long gone.   MV  and Austin need to go,  no question.    What they've been doing isn't working.   We couldn't beat the expected wooden spooners,  we couldn't beat Dogs who had some of their best players out.    Skills, fitness, players decision making and execution all seem to be lacking,  if not the full game, then large portions of.   We can only work with what we've got,  but reality is this list isn't going to make top 8.   Time to reset after another failed rebuild.  

Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #68 –
Quote from: LordLucifer – on
Have a read of this :

Quote
The Blues coach wasn’t fretting despite a 0-3 start to the season, suggesting there would be a greater focus on what needs to be “reinforced” to build better habits, as opposed to changing things up.

“In the context of the season, we’re at the start, so there’s plenty of runway,” he said.

“But we’ve also got feedback to suggest we’ve got to get better. We’ve got some real parts of our game that are a bit more obvious than others.

“When you watch us play and see the better parts of our games, it’s worth persisting with. But the message will be pretty simple from me, make sure we get really clear on our roles, continue to keep playing us and at the right times we need to put composure in games and we’ll keep coaching it.”

I've never read such a trumped up load of bullsh1t in my life.

Instead of admitting the facts, just trot out a heap of pure deflection & obfuscation.

This to me is a strong sign that our coach hasn't got any more tricks in his kitbag & is just making up excuses to make it sound like he does.  
So what should he do?
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #69 –
Side note - not Carlton related - to lift the depression a little watch Giddeys amazing last 12 seconds for the Bulls last night 👏🏽

Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #70 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Quote from: LordLucifer – on
Have a read of this :



I've never read such a trumped up load of bullsh1t in my life.

Instead of admitting the facts, just trot out a heap of pure deflection & obfuscation.

This to me is a strong sign that our coach hasn't got any more tricks in his kitbag & is just making up excuses to make it sound like he does.  
So what should he do?

How about say something truthful and meaningful for a start?    Stop spruiking the nonsensical 'little green shoots' BS like that other unmentionable waste of time we had.    Show us a bit of the old MV player mongrel and fight,  and not the current 'MV  I've got no real answers and I'm fearful of losing my job' Coach.   The fans don't want that.   Show some anger, show some grit and determination that can transfer to the team.!

Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #71 –
Quote from: Micky0 – on
Side note - not Carlton related - to lift the depression a little watch Giddeys amazing last 12 seconds for the Bulls last night 👏🏽

yep, he's really firing,    maybe MV can recruit him

Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #72 –
After 1/4 time... 7gls to 12gls.

I hope we're playing the long game... ease gradually into the season so as to be at our best August/September. If I say that to myself enough I may even convince myself it's true. **Cough, splutter**

Caution Bambies... here I come. Walsh was a liability. Acres disposal efficiency was not much better than 30%. Ollie looks lost. Doc, just sad to watch. Evans is one-dimensional, good (not great) defensively, then crickets and tumbleweeds. Don't know where Motlop and Fog are at. Gov is barely adequate - has lost offensive flair. Cerra seemed to be just a good average player in this game.

The 'same old, same old' file added another page - once the opposition upped the anti after 1/4 time we were good honest battlers with a few special moments, PLUS... too many passengers.

On the upside. Club was spot on with persisting with Kemp up forward and JSOS down back - both were great. TDK terrific, again. Weiters terrific, again. Haynes getting better. Hewett, good. Young silenced a few critics - honest effort. Losing Williams was significant. Boyd valuable once he came on.

To be honest, I just don't know what we are. Just a bunch of really honest, hard-working triers with some terrific moments let down badly by the bottom six to eight players? Are we back in the honourable losses and brave efforts niche? Making the 8 seems miles away.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #73 –
I dont have the answers but watching and playing for this club is hard work at the minute.  Maybe it's just as simple as things are challenging at the moment, and when you're not enjoying your footy the results are what we see.  Truthfully I can't think of a player that didn't try, we just executed really poorly when the game was there to be won.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs

Reply #74 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Just a bunch of really honest, hard-working triers with some terrific moments let down badly by the bottom six to eight players? Are we back in the honourable losses and brave efforts niche? Making the 8 seems miles away.

Nailed it.

We were sold a slow long to cut to the bone rebuild to have sustained deep finals action for 4-5 years with the hope of getting a few flags while in that window. Well its a failure as that is clearly not going to happen without wholesale changes to the list and if TDK leaves we have another hole in it to fill.

30 years between flags and still look miles off.