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Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS

Reply #45 –
Swans and GWS both have big injury lists.
We have no excuses...
 

Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS

Reply #46 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Swans and GWS both have big injury lists.
We have no excuses...

exactly. look at the pies tonight. we would of been smashed and most supporters would be saying yeah but forget that game as we had so many out. they adjust find a way and all play their role and get it done.

We are happy with mediocrity and fall back on injury or bad luck excuses year after year. all while the teams that win flags grit their teeth and simply find ways to adjust and get it done. They are less affected by losing a soldier because they dont rely on a handful of stars they are system based teams one goes out they have another who knows their role and comes in

Until we accept we are miles off it and are willing to massive changes in both the list and also all levels of coaching we will not amount to anything.

Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS

Reply #47 –
As supporters we're happy to accept list changes and coaching changes....but the club seems very resistant to change.  We need to become a system based not personnel based club on game day.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS

Reply #48 –
I dont think a fit list with a 10 man injury list is in the same conversation as an unfit list with a 10 man injury list that should be closer to 25.

There's a critical mass that gets hit.  We hit about round 18 last season and on current evidence are not getting fitter.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS

Reply #49 –
They all seem match fit to me - just lack the hunger and desire to win. or down on confidence in a big way.

Small forwards not finishing their work probably letting down the rest of the group as they do bust a gut and get it forward relentlessly.

Small forward set up needs an overhaul after the bye.

Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS

Reply #50 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
I dont think a fit list with a 10 man injury list is in the same conversation as an unfit list with a 10 man injury list that should be closer to 25.

There's a critical mass that gets hit.  We hit about round 18 last season and on current evidence are not getting fitter.
Are they unfit or lack endurance to play the modern game for 4 quarters or does lacking endurance = unfit? in todays game.

Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS

Reply #51 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Quote from: Lods – on
Of the more established group...(so take out Lord.)
Who is actually playing better this year than last year?

I've got Hewett,
Maybe O Hollands.
perhaps Cerra
Silvagni and Docherty (I know ;) )
thats why i said this is our 2012.

Our fortunes would look very different with the same team in form and fit.  For mine, we look like a team that has had a poor pre season and the continuous breakdowns are not helping. 

I guess the concern for me is... I look at our best players.
Fully fit they're a pretty talented lot.
Will they be better in 2026?

Cripps-not near his form of his Brownlow seasons.
Curnow- Poor in follow ups after the initial contest is lost. It's not a new thing either. Is it injury related? Can he bend over??
Walsh-Inconsistent. I suspect (many do) he's carrying a chronic injury
De Koning- Off the boil in recent weeks. Has a big decision ahead of  him.
Weitering-Has carried the backline for years. Is it starting to take a toll.
Silvagni-Having a bad run with injuries in recent years.
McKay-Form is a bit erratic at the moment.
Docherty-Has taken him a while to get back up to speed, but best behind him and it may be his last season.

Then we have a group of mid tier players-Saad, Haynes, McGovern, Hewett etc who are moving into the twilight part of their careers.

If they all hit form next year we'll be in much better shape.
But they will all be another year older next season.
The reality is many may have reached their peak and be on a downward slide.
Chances of them being better is probably a fifty-fifty.
Chances of them 'all' being better is 'very slim'

What do we have coming through?
A few show promise...but it's doubtful they wil be influential in the next two years.

Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS

Reply #52 –
@lods, I dont have the answers, but its fair to say that guys like Williams will never be fit. The rest let's see come end of season where they're at.

For mine, I've written off the year.  Cooper Lord has emerged.  Will white is handy.  Cowan was looking great until hamstrings.  Carroll is still a bit iffy but uses it well.  Boyd is showing why we like him but unfortunately has struggled with fitness and form.

Both hollands boys are good.  One has some mental health issues that could linger.  Who knows.

Its not all doom and gloom.  HOF and jsos have shown maybe we aren't all at sea key position wise, and who knows what happens with Kemp post Achilles?

Ultimately you need a but of luck and injuries do happen but we seem to have the opposite of luck.  Old man dangerflog has had a light hamstring strain at age 35, whilst we seem to get chronic injuries to players in their 20's that see them struggle all season.

That maybe won't turn.  Who knows but I'm not willing to throw the baby out either the bathwater and trade them all.  Jarrad Waite was similar with us, went to north and became a consistent performer after years of being a yo yo with injury with us.

Keep doing things in a measured way.  We are going to organically go backwards this year.  Hopefully we will organically improve without the big moves and get a bit luckier with our fitness.  Then all we need is the same luck with additions to the list and we'll be fine and potentially having one down year this year with a calculated gamble on improving next year.  If we hold the line and focus on structure, brand and development that will hold us in good stead without the personnell woes.  End of year keep adding to the bottome end of the list for the impending transition and then gamble with the older types coming good.

They come good we win a flag maybe.  They dont we stay mid pack and then bank salary cap for when the youngsters need supplementing. 
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS

Reply #53 –
https://www.afl.com.au/video/1329482/trsf-is-the-future-of-michael-voss-at-carlton-in-doubt?videoId=1329482&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1748128942001

What's wrong....(not the coaching talk...the bit at the end regarding forward efficiency)
It's not rocket science.

Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS

Reply #54 –
Quote from: crashlander – on
At the moment Acres and Weitering are not close to being fit. Weitering is struggling and really needs a rest.
If Acres isn't going to get better, then he needs to sent to surgery, and prepared for next year. Better do it now than wait until he can't be replaced.

Not sure that this is the draft to make huge changes, but it is the one we're stuck with.

Mitch McGovern is struggling. We can't carry him at the moment. I'm not sure what his future is, but he is making mistakes that cost us goals. He leads to competition in this area.

Doc played well today: he, at least, wasn't embarrassed. But he is nearer the end than the beginning.


Least effective game I have seen from Weitering.

Easily the best contribution from Docherty this year.

Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS

Reply #55 –
I’m pretty sure Voss, the coaches and the players know exactly what is wrong and where the game is breaking down, but finding a solution is clearly taking longer than we would like.

Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS

Reply #56 –
It's simple
Defensive forwards to the backline.
Attacking defenders to the forward line :D  :D

Seriously though...the forward structure doesn't seem to change much despite the obvious breakdown. What are they trying differently?

Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS

Reply #57 –
Quote from: RiverRat – on
Quote from: crashlander – on
At the moment Acres and Weitering are not close to being fit. Weitering is struggling and really needs a rest.
If Acres isn't going to get better, then he needs to sent to surgery, and prepared for next year. Better do it now than wait until he can't be replaced.

Not sure that this is the draft to make huge changes, but it is the one we're stuck with.

Mitch McGovern is struggling. We can't carry him at the moment. I'm not sure what his future is, but he is making mistakes that cost us goals. He leads to competition in this area.

Doc played well today: he, at least, wasn't embarrassed. But he is nearer the end than the beginning.


Least effective game I have seen from Weitering.

Easily the best contribution from Docherty this year.
Its like the fingers in the holes in the dyke, plug one another appears.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS

Reply #58 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Quote from: RiverRat – on


Least effective game I have seen from Weitering.

Easily the best contribution from Docherty this year.
Its like the fingers in the holes in the dyke, plug one another appears.
The fingers aren’t the problem, the dyke is flawed.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS

Reply #59 –
Watching our blokes at the end of the 1st-Qtr yesterday, there was either a bunching of them with illness, unfit or carrying injuries.

I thought in no particular order, TDK, Cripps, Walsh, Saad, Curnow, Acres and Weitering all had problems, some looked like they were about to throw up and it was only just the end of the 1st-Qtr.

Of those TDK I sort of understand, we cooked his goose, he'll barely recover again this season without some significant respite, more than likely he'll break down at some stage. Players aren't just a mathematical statistic, you can't just turn the dial up more, they are a rare and finite resource with limited capability.

But in general I can't make sense of it, because regardless of the tactics, in the previous couple of seasons and often since the pandemic we had a trend to frequently finish games strongly for a noble loss, our problem was not finishing strongly, sometimes it was often not getting ahead on the scoreboard before the final siren, or being defeated in a last gasp roll of the dice like the Filth's.

Now we are done by 3/4-time and being run-over, to me it doesn't look like 2025 is a superior fitness regime, I suspect eventually someone is going to the wall over that decision.

Do we look stronger, fitter, more durable, less injury prone, not to me, at least not right now.

I realise we need patience with a new fitness regime, but 3 months, 6 months, it's enough, I think it's more than enough!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"