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Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS

Reply #75 –
Quote from: pinot – on
Quote from: kruddler – on


That covers, what, 6 players. What about the other 40 on the list?
Forget that, what about the other 14 in the team?
Lets not go overboard, lets simply look at the other 4 forwards.
Out of them, how many get a game in another team?

Parts of the list are strong......very strong.....parts of the list are not.
We've pulled a few rabbits out of hats to somewhat potentially solve our CHB issue which was IMO our biggest need.
Our next biggest need IMO is elite ball users from HB to HF.
This is where we are getting let down.
How many from your list above fit that category?

Cerra, Silvagni, Haynes, Gov, Williams, TDK, Acres, Hewett, Cottrell

Then you have O + E Hollands, Lord, White, Fogarty, Cincotta, Boyd.

Its not the talent of the players - its the coach.

There is more than enough talent on the list. Kemp, Smith, Newman not included...

You didn't answer the question though, and your names proved it.

Which forwards besides our 2 tall forwards get a game in another decent side?

I just got through explaining this in another thread. Talent kn the list and talent jn the side are 2 different things.
Talent in position is another that is conveniently overlooked as well.

Re forwards....
Williams and elijah would be in most people's sides. Both unavailable. Probably throw in kemp as well. That's 3 starting forwards unavailable. Some would argue cottrell there, making 4.

In any event, we have motlop, durdin, white and fogarty there currently.
White was overlooked by everyone.
Fogarty is a former discard.
Then we have motlop and durdin.

Which teams are saying, yep, I'll add them to my side tomorrow? Nobody inside the 8!

So do we have talent in that area? Do we have FIT talent in that area?

It's why we've added fantasia and Evans to our list to help that area (both vying for 1st player delisted at years end imo)


Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS

Reply #76 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Footy Furnace crew bagged our system and kicking going forward which is nothing new, but blamed it on coaching where to kick and said it's it's a skill we have not fixed for 2 years with Bartel in a clip from back then identifying our poor entries. So that's the coach in the gun but also identified our players not being on the same page and being selfish instead of looking for better options.
There was a list of our worst poor kicking players, players who are down this season
 and the view that our premiership window is closing especially if TDK leaves.

There are 2 ways to look at this and the media only ever focusses on 1.

#1
As mentioned, kicking to forwards is poor. General skill level on the outside is poor.

#2
Not talked about is what we hope to achieve with those kicks. You touched on it with cripps not wanting ro be burnt the other way.
We go long to the pocket to get the ball locked into our forwardline. When we go there, the ball is spoiled over the line for a throwin. We get time to settle our defence, build the wall and fight for the stoppage in our forwardline. We are good at stoppages and back ourselves to keep it there and let it out with the umpire taking it back to the middle after a goal.

Like it or not, this is how we play. This is how we keep the opposition in check with low scores. Team defence. Dare I say it, but it's similar to Malthouses strategy of long down the line.
Keep the ball away from areas that can hurt you - the corridor.

Or course if we had some better skilled mids and better skilled forwards, we wouldn't need to play so safe....but we have what we have.

Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS

Reply #77 –
I don't think it's just the kicking of our mids into the forward line, you also need to consider what sort of options the forwards are giving them.  Charlie and Harry's main play is to point one hand in the air like the Statue of Liberty and wrestle - hardly a commanding presence.  They've become accustomed to slow entry and seem to almost have given up providing regular leads.  Charlie in particular is looking pretty lazy of late - if he doesn't get the ball, he basically gives up.

Our small forwards are dumb - they offer leads when they're too slow to get ahead of their opponent, and they're not all that strong overhead anyway, and in the end they are not underneath the pack where they should be. 

Of course, it would help if our F50 entries didn't mostly consist of slow-entry 50m kicks which defenders just love.......  oh for some half backs and outside mids who can run, bounce and kick......

This is now the longest premiership drought in the history of the Carlton Football Club - more evidence of climate change?

Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS

Reply #78 –
Always depending on scoring from stoppages is mentally and physically draining, sometimes we need the easy shot on goal.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS

Reply #79 –
As a heap of intelligent opinions suggest above, there's a lot of issues.  List make up, player availability, attitude, skill level, coaching and game plan.
Equals no realistic premiership opportunity for a very long time.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS

Reply #80 –
Quote from: Professer E – on
As a heap of intelligent opinions suggest above, there's a lot of issues.  List make up, player availability, attitude, skill level, coaching and game plan.
Equals no realistic premiership opportunity for a very long time.

You need all of these things 'gelling' to be a successful club.
We seem to be very disjointed in a lot of these areas (not on the same page)
Players and coaches can take some responsiblity, but the ones chiefly responsible for creating that professional environment are probably at the next level up.
There may be a 'storm' coming in the form of Graham Wright.
While stability may be the preferred method going forward, it may need a bit of a shake-up in the short term.
 

Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS

Reply #81 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Swans and GWS both have big injury lists.
We have no excuses...

Yeah, we do struggle with adversity, and dont win those games with the big outs, like some other mobs do
This is also the (what) 15th year in a row, that we have had poor "luck" with interrupted pre-seasons and injuries

But, to be glass half full - i know a lot of teams have 10 injuries, but look at the ones we have
- JSOS - was proving to be one of our only great users of half back
- Newy - ditto
- Williams - our only potent goal kicking small forward
- Cotters & Acres - our gut runners who provide a bit on the outside
- Jager - some class and polish in the middle
- Lij - can actually use it, going forward
- Cincotta - would have been handy on Heeney last week and Greene this week
- Charlie & Harry - both having interupted years - surely this is affecting them
- Weeters - surely hurt this week - pretty self explanatory
- Add to that Walsh (preseason) and Crippa (somehting not right) going at 90%, instead of 100%

They would all help a bit with our current weaknesses  
(and - I dont think Kennedy or Owies (or Stocker or Zac Fisher) would add that much to our current weaknesses - so, maybe the media can give that a rest)

Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS

Reply #82 –
George Hewett got the ball 17 times on the weekend.  4 kicks 13 handballs, and has been our best performer this season by the length of the flemington straight.  2 marks and 1 tackle.

I cant remember not noticing him so much in a game for a very long time. 



"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS

Reply #83 –
four years under Voss to balance the list with small forward class.
There is only one trade that makes sense - TDK pick if he goes + McKay to North Melbourne for Paul Curtis + 2nd round pick.

Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS

Reply #84 –
Quote from: pinot – on
four years under Voss to balance the list with small forward class.
There is only one trade that makes sense - TDK pick if he goes + McKay to North Melbourne for Paul Curtis + 2nd round pick.
They won't trade Curtis and he loves Clarko.

Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS

Reply #85 –
Quote from: pinot – on
four years under Voss to balance the list with small forward class.
There is only one trade that makes sense - TDK pick if he goes + McKay to North Melbourne for Paul Curtis + 2nd round pick.

Did you type that correctly?
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS

Reply #86 –
Maybe if they threw McKercher or Sheezel in, otherwise give up the drugs mate
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS

Reply #87 –
Quote from: pinot – on
four years under Voss to balance the list with small forward class.
There is only one trade that makes sense - TDK pick if he goes + McKay to North Melbourne for Paul Curtis + 2nd round pick.
I wouldn't be trading McKay.  He is a very important player.

Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS

Reply #89 –
Quote from: pertz – on
Quote from: pinot – on
four years under Voss to balance the list with small forward class.
There is only one trade that makes sense - TDK pick if he goes + McKay to North Melbourne for Paul Curtis + 2nd round pick.
I wouldn't be trading McKay.  He is a very important player.

Im all for trading Harry, I think two tall key forwards isnt the go in modern footy and we need a class small forward and a class half back more. The times we have played with one key forward and an inbetween tall like Kemp in the other KP we have looked a bit slicker and more modern in our playing style.
If TDK goes and either Harry or Sam Walsh are traded we might be able to reset quickly with the draft capital, Graeme Wright presided over the Grundy/Treloar trades and the Pies had a flag in 12 months time.
Id want Wright in charge of any of these bigger trades both outgoing and incoming, time to roll the dice imho.