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Topic: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon (Read 11388 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #105 –
Quote from: LordLucifer – on
Quote from: PaulP – on
And I should also add that I see plenty of players, from all teams, who could be construed to be jogging or not giving 2nd efforts.

I couldn't give two sh1ts about what the players at other clubs do though Paul, it's what OUR players do that completely infuriates me.

....and if every team has players that do the same thing, whether it infuriates you or not, its makes your point moot.
 

Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #106 –
Watched the replay, nothing much has changed. Only kicked 4 goals from mid way through the second quarter. Missing goals, not reaching the goal line, poor skills though less than last time I watched, poor decision making going forward, players getting in one another way when going for the ball, not sure what each other will do. Thought they kept up their contested effort and didn't drop their heads. Still not playing the match out. After TDK kicked his goal the players switched off again. Didn't come out ready to play after half time. Acres goal should have sparked an onslaught, Williams goal should have been a start of an avalanche, but we decided to shut up shop. Allowed them to get back I the game.  Never give a sucker an even break. In 1979 Carlton went to sleep and allowed North to win the game.  In 1981 we slowed down and allowed Essendon to win the game,  we learnt our lesson and won Premierships, we don't seem to learn our lessons.
Well done How. Well done match committee for bringing young guys through.

Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #107 –
Quote from: LordLucifer – on
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Nothing funny about it all Lods, its central to our issues it drives me to despair. A good mate mine tells me AdNauseam, we have some of the dumbest players in the comp, I try and defend them but I think he's right.

Not only are our players dumb, but they are lazy & conditional too.

I saw two glaring examples of this on Sunday night.

White had the ball on the far side of the ground, ran around in a circular manner and tried to kick across the body but it got smothered by a Bombres player. The ballwas on the ground with the opposition about to pick it up and instead of knowing he'd made a huge blunder and tried to rectify it by running over an tackling or applying pressure, he just jogged on the spot and let them clear the ball easily instead of running in and tackling or bumping.

The ball spilled over the back of a marking contest just in front of the goalsquare, an Essendon player was paddling the ball around near to the point line, even though Curnow had just had his marking attempt spoilt, he also jogged on the spot and allowed the Essendon player to clear the ball without any pressure or challenge instead of running in and tackling or bumping.

Both of these incidents were utterly sh1tful and tell me everything I need to know about our players.

Can you imagine the Pies players doing the same thing ?? I highly doubt it !!

Thing is, you can't teach that, the player either has the depserate will to win in his belly or he doesn't, we have too many who don't and it's why the opposition teams know we are always gettable. 
Saw both of those, not a good look.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #108 –
Quote from: LordLucifer – on
Quote from: DJC – on
Players know when they can impact contests and are drilled to take the safest option if they can’t.  Gout Gout would have struggled to have an impact in both of those incidents.

An impossible chase may look good to fans but it won’t win games of footy.

No, nada, zilch ........... not buying that cop-out excuse, our players are lazy and it shows.

Just letting the opposition do what they like when they like is a defeatist atitude especially when the ball was well within a reasonable space for them to challenge.

Ill put my hand up and say I have been critical of Curnow for being lazy and conditional. I have thought this for a very long time and many people (media, footy forums) are now saying the same thing. I mentioned a while back how I have heard many Carlton supporters at the footy say the same thing. He is the golden child who can do no wrong, Mr Popular amongst his team mates and the fans. A dual Coleman Medalist to boot so there is no doubting his talent., Without any knowledge what so I ever I'll guess and say his coaches do not dare be critical of him or offer some honest feedback under any circumstance. For me he is by far the most frustrating player on a list. Perhaps he is just following instructions.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #109 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Quote from: LordLucifer – on


Not only are our players dumb, but they are lazy & conditional too.

I saw two glaring examples of this on Sunday night.

White had the ball on the far side of the ground, ran around in a circular manner and tried to kick across the body but it got smothered by a Bombres player. The ballwas on the ground with the opposition about to pick it up and instead of knowing he'd made a huge blunder and tried to rectify it by running over an tackling or applying pressure, he just jogged on the spot and let them clear the ball easily instead of running in and tackling or bumping.

The ball spilled over the back of a marking contest just in front of the goalsquare, an Essendon player was paddling the ball around near to the point line, even though Curnow had just had his marking attempt spoilt, he also jogged on the spot and allowed the Essendon player to clear the ball without any pressure or challenge instead of running in and tackling or bumping.

Both of these incidents were utterly sh1tful and tell me everything I need to know about our players.

Can you imagine the Pies players doing the same thing ?? I highly doubt it !!

Thing is, you can't teach that, the player either has the depserate will to win in his belly or he doesn't, we have too many who don't and it's why the opposition teams know we are always gettable. 
Saw both of those, not a good look.
Worse was Williams dropped mark with no pressure and not for the first time he has fumbled thinking he was going to take some contact, dont see what everyone else sees in him...800k plus for that effort each year isnt good enough if we want to be a top level team.

Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #110 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Saw both of those, not a good look.
Worse was Williams dropped mark with no pressure and not for the first time he has fumbled thinking he was going to take some contact, dont see what everyone else sees in him...800k plus for that effort each year isnt good enough if we want to be a top level team.
One could go on and on picking out poor execution from players who simply shouldn't. Its futile.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #111 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
And I should also add that I see plenty of players, from all teams, who could be construed to be jogging or not giving 2nd efforts.

The fact of the matter is that players cannot give 100% effort for the entire game.  A gut-running effort from Ollie Hollands takes its toll and he has to have a spell on the bench or take an easier option next time he's in the play.

Charlie was on the ground for 92% of the game on Sunday.  Only Weitering was on the ground for longer. 

Charlie has to conserve his energy and he has to choose when it's worth putting in that extra effort or focusing on preparing for the next opportunity.  If Charlie expends energy in a futile chase he will be unable to get up the ground to provide a marking target or lead for the ball inside 50.

If the "observations" of some spectators had merit, Charlie wouldn't be in the team.  If he did make the second, third and fourth efforts that some spectators think he should, he would be on the bench for 40-50% of the game, and we don't have the luxury of another gun key forward on the pine and ready to give Charlie a breather.

It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #112 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on

Worse was Williams dropped mark with no pressure and not for the first time he has fumbled thinking he was going to take some contact, dont see what everyone else sees in him...800k plus for that effort each year isnt good enough if we want to be a top level team.
One could go on and on picking out poor execution from players who simply shouldn't. Its futile.
Serial offenders on big money need calling out, you wouldnt see Jamie Elliott doing that stuff and if we want to go places we have to move on from players who are inconsistent with effort and Im being kind describing it in those terms.
The commentators called it out also and I hope Voss had a word with him, kicking easy goals out the back is something I can get Durdin to do on half the money and you know at least he will contest properly.

Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #113 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Saw both of those, not a good look.
Worse was Williams dropped mark with no pressure and not for the first time he has fumbled thinking he was going to take some contact, dont see what everyone else sees in him...800k plus for that effort each year isnt good enough if we want to be a top level team.

I don't think Williams was expecting contact at all.  He simply got under a ball that wasn't directed as well as it could have been.  Not difficult under lights and deep in the pocket.

What I saw from Zac on Sunday was footy smarts and a lively performance that produced two goals, two goal assists, eight score involvements, two marks inside 50, three clearances and 336 metres gained.  That's not a bad return from a small/medium forward under any circumstances.  Fly would have loved a similar performance from Jamie Elliott.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #114 –
Quote from: DJC – on
The fact of the matter is that players cannot give 100% effort for the entire game.  A gut-running effort from Ollie Hollands takes it's toll and he has to have a spell on the bench or take an easier option next time he's in the play.

Charlie was on the ground for 92% of the game on Sunday.  Only Weitering was on the ground for longer. 

Charlie has to conserve his energy and he has to choose when it's worth putting in that extra effort or focusing on preparing for the next opportunity.  If Charlie expends energy in a futile chase he will be unable to get up the ground to provide a marking target or lead for the ball inside 50.

If the "observations" of some spectators had merit, Charlie wouldn't be in the team.  If he did make the second, third and fourth efforts that some spectators think he should, he would be on the bench for 40-50% of the game, and we don't have the luxury of another gun key forward on the pine and ready to give Charlie a breather.

I would have to agree. These short moments get frozen in time, and become a dogma that gets played on repeat. Everything else is ignored. So when someone with this mindset watches the footy, it doesn't matter that Charlie kicks a few goals. It doesn't  matter that he runs several kms in one game. It doesn't matter that he spends 90+% TOG. It doesn't matter that he takes great contested marks. The only thing that matters is that he "appears", on a small number of occasions, to not give the effort some supporters deem to be the minimum required, despite not really knowing the background instructions, game plan etc. And such supporters have trained themselves, over years, to go looking for this.

 If you are going to Photoshop out of the picture everything that compromises your cherished dogmas and beliefs, you have, IMO, a serious flaw in your thought process. 

Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #115 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Quote from: PaulP – on
And I should also add that I see plenty of players, from all teams, who could be construed to be jogging or not giving 2nd efforts.

The fact of the matter is that players cannot give 100% effort for the entire game.  A gut-running effort from Ollie Hollands takes it's toll and he has to have a spell on the bench or take an easier option next time he's in the play.

Charlie was on the ground for 92% of the game on Sunday.  Only Weitering was on the ground for longer. 

Charlie has to conserve his energy and he has to choose when it's worth putting in that extra effort or focusing on preparing for the next opportunity.  If Charlie expends energy in a futile chase he will be unable to get up the ground to provide a marking target or lead for the ball inside 50.

If the "observations" of some spectators had merit, Charlie wouldn't be in the team.  If he did make the second, third and fourth efforts that some spectators think he should, he would be on the bench for 40-50% of the game, and we don't have the luxury of another gun key forward on the pine and ready to give Charlie a breather.

Yep.

Some people say our contested game plan is unsustainable, leads to our fallouts in the second half and our extensive injury list.
Other people complain that some players (and its not limited to Curnow) don't run around like headless chooks 100% of the time chasing tail they will never catch.

Reality is somewhere in the middle.

Protect players who can make a difference.
Use fringe players to cause havoc on the chase.

On a side note, how good is it that we have all these 'passengers' but are still getting wins.
Previously, unless Cripps or Charlie or Harry dominated, we couldn't win. Now we had 'poor' games from 2 of them, and the 3rd was replaced by a debutant.

Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #116 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Quote from: DJC – on
The fact of the matter is that players cannot give 100% effort for the entire game.  A gut-running effort from Ollie Hollands takes it's toll and he has to have a spell on the bench or take an easier option next time he's in the play.

Charlie was on the ground for 92% of the game on Sunday.  Only Weitering was on the ground for longer. 

Charlie has to conserve his energy and he has to choose when it's worth putting in that extra effort or focusing on preparing for the next opportunity.  If Charlie expends energy in a futile chase he will be unable to get up the ground to provide a marking target or lead for the ball inside 50.

If the "observations" of some spectators had merit, Charlie wouldn't be in the team.  If he did make the second, third and fourth efforts that some spectators think he should, he would be on the bench for 40-50% of the game, and we don't have the luxury of another gun key forward on the pine and ready to give Charlie a breather.

I would have to agree. These short moments get frozen in time, and become a dogma that gets played on repeat. Everything else is ignored. So when someone with this mindset watches the footy, it doesn't matter that Charlie kicks a few goals. It doesn't  matter that he runs several kms in one game. It doesn't matter that he spends 90+% TOG. It doesn't matter that he takes great contested marks. The only thing that matters is that he "appears", on a small number of occasions, to not give the effort some supporters deem to be the minimum required, despite not really knowing the background instructions, game plan etc. And such supporters have trained themselves, over years, to go looking for this.

 If you are going to Photoshop out of the picture everything that compromises your cherished dogmas and beliefs, you have, IMO, a serious flaw in your thought process.
Confirmation bias.

Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #118 –
Things are never as bad as they seem.

We could play every game the same way, and reverse two results.  1 vs the Tigers where we hang on for a narrow win, and the other vs the bulldogs and most of the criticism we are hearing right now dissipates.

We'd also be sitting out of thr 8 on percentage alone.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFL Rd 13 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Essendon

Reply #119 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on

Worse was Williams dropped mark with no pressure and not for the first time he has fumbled thinking he was going to take some contact, dont see what everyone else sees in him...800k plus for that effort each year isnt good enough if we want to be a top level team.

I don't think Williams was expecting contact at all.  He simply got under a ball that wasn't directed as well as it could have been.  Not difficult under lights and deep in the pocket.

What I saw from Zac on Sunday was footy smarts and a lively performance that produced two goals, two goal assists, eight score involvements, two marks inside 50, three clearances and 336 metres gained.  That's not a bad return from a small/medium forward under any circumstances.  Fly would have loved a similar performance from Jamie Elliott.
That would be a poor game from Jamie Elliott and his opponent would be credited with having him well held. One is a class act who will be All Australian and the other is an inconsistent serial offender when it comes to poor contesting and we need better from a senior player especially when younger players like Matt Carroll are putting their bodies on the line in marking contests and committing to the cause.