Carlton Supporters Club

Quote from: Thryleon – on December 21, 2025, 12:46:28 pm

Not saying it isnt, and whilst we like to place rules on this, where were these rules when Islamic militants abducted innocent party goers at a music festival?

This isnt sports.  With a referee that can adjudicate, and when the Palestinians hide their militants in the gen pop and under hospitals then what is expected?

I know there are rules of conduct and what not, but whos rules are they?   History is always written by the victor.

That's the thing though Thry, the terrorists who attacked innocent Israelis aren't professional soldiers, don't wear a uniform, don't answer to a government and aren't bound by the rules that govern conflicts between nations.  If they are apprehended, they are charged with terrorism offences (although the ICC did charge the now dead head of Hamas with war crimes).  When I was a member of the ADF, I was taught the provisions of the Geneva and Hague Conventions and regularly reminded to comply with them at all times.  Of course, professional soldiers may find it hard to adhere to the rules when the enemy doesn't, as we saw in Afghanistan.

Israel is a party to all four Geneva Conventions of 1949 and is legally bound by their rules ... and they're the first to bleat if any IDF personnel are not treated in accordance with the conventions.

Again, you're falling into the trap of assuming that the militants represent all Palestinians and all Palestinians are militants.  The vast majority of Palestinians just want the Israelis and Hamas to leave them alone and they are not hiding "their militants" anywhere.

The 7 October attacks killed 1,195 people, 815 of whom were Israeli civilians.  In addition, around 250 people were taken hostage and many of them haven't survived.  The Israeli offensive that followed has killed 70,925 Palestinians, foreign aid workers and reporters and another 171,185 have been wounded.  Around 1,200 IDF personnel have been killed since 7 October, on all fronts.  Since the "ceasefire", 379 Palestinians, including 70 children, have been killed and three IDF soldiers have died.  Those figures aren't surprising when you have one of the largest, most ruthless and well-equipped military forces waging war on unarmed civilians and defenceless children.

Hamas was estimated to have between 20-40,000 fighters of varying capacity and access to weapons in October 2023.  The IDF claims to have killed around 17,000 to 23,000 militants (that's around one third of Palestinian casualties) since then.  Of course, the ongoing persecution of Palestinians is likely to radicalise more fighters but there's a finite number. 

The ICC is the referee that adjudicates war crimes.

I'm not a fan of protests generally and I don't think the pro-Palestinian rallies will change anyone's mind, or government policies.  However, as Judith Treanor, a Jewish small business owner, points out,

"Those advocating for restrictions on pro-Palestinian protests must acknowledge the diversity of Jewish perspectives. Many Jews, including members of anti-Zionist groups like Jews Against the Occupation '48, Tzedek Collective, and the Loud Jew Collective, actively participate in these weekly rallies, standing in solidarity with Palestinians suffering atrocities in Gaza and the West Bank.

Globally, anti-Zionist Jewish groups echo this support. In the U.S., Jewish Voice for Peace and lfNotNow have organised mass protests. Orthodox groups like Torah Jews for Justice have taken clear anti-Zionist stances. In London, the UJewish Bloc" within pro-Palestine rallies numbers in the hundreds, including Holocaust survivors. Na'amod, a contributing group, emphasises that uonly when Palestinians live in freedom and dignity will Israel have security.

These groups, like ours, reject the notion that Zionism represents all Jews. The atrocities committed by Israel are not done in ourtives. Many Jews, including members of anti-Zionist groups like Jews Against the Occupation '48, Tzedek Collective, and the Loud Jew Collective, actively participate in these weekly rallies, standing in solidarity with Palestinians suffering atrocities in Gaza and the West Bank.

Globally, anti-Zionist Jewish groups echo this support. In the U.S., Jewish Voice for Peace and lfNotNow have organised mass protests. Orthodox groups like Torah Jews for Justice have taken clear anti-Zionist stances. In London, the UJewish Bloc" within pro-Palestine rallies numbers in the hundreds, including Holocaust survivors. Na'amod, a contributing group, emphasises that uonly when Palestinians live in freedom and dignity will Israel have security.

These groups, like ours, reject the notion that Zionism represents all Jews. The atrocities committed by Israel are not done in our name."

You can read Judith's letter here: chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/lcdocs/other/21804/Judith%20Treanor,%20Pearls%20and%20Irritations,%2029%20January%202025.pdf

An exercise in hypocrisy!

Josh Frydenberg, ever the opportunist, is criticising the Government's position on hate speech but he strongly advocated weakening existing hate speech legislation when he was an MP.

Sussan Ley is embarrassing with some of her appearances in recent days.
 

Quote from: Lods – on December 23, 2025, 01:34:49 pm

Sussan Ley is embarrassing with some of her appearances in recent days.
 

Not as embarrassing as Albanese, Wong and Burke. The only polly with any credibility has been Chris Minns from NSW imo.
Minns has been prepared to break ALP ranks and call for a Royal Commission along with the Federal Opposition and has been able to negotiate support from NSW opposition leader Kellie Sloane for security and gun control reforms. Albanese and crew have been too busy avoiding responsibility and are more interested in deflecting criticism, accountability and trying to shore up votes by making token disingenuous appearances which have been met with the appropriate response from the Jewish community who can see through them like a sheet of ultra clear glass.

Morrison was PM when an Australian nazi terrorist shot and killed 51 Muslim worshippers in New Zealand.  Abbott was PM when a Muslim terrorist took hostages in the Lindt Cafe, two of whom subsequently died from gunshot wounds.  Howard was PM when an Australian shot and killed 35 tourists at Port Arthur.

The common thread is that the Opposition adopted a bi-partisan approach and supported the Government's responses in each case.

You would expect the One Nation nutters to try to capitalise on any event but the politicisation of the Bondi tragedy by the Coalition is disgraceful.

The hysterical calls for a Royal Commission are probably understandable but should be ignored by good government.  If there were flaws in the work of ASIO, AFP and/or NSW Police, they need to be identified and rectified immediately, not after a Royal Commission has spent 18 months or more examining the terrorist attack from a legal perspective.

Quote from: DJC – on December 23, 2025, 05:15:44 pm

Morrison was PM when an Australian nazi terrorist shot and killed 51 Muslim worshippers in New Zealand.  Abbott was PM when a Muslim terrorist took hostages in the Lindt Cafe, two of whom subsequently died from gunshot wounds.  Howard was PM when an Australian shot and killed 35 tourists at Port Arthur.

The common thread is that the Opposition adopted a bi-partisan approach and supported the Government's responses in each case.

You would expect the One Nation nutters to try to capitalise on any event but the politicisation of the Bondi tragedy by the Coalition is disgraceful.

The hysterical calls for a Royal Commission are probably understandable but should be ignored by good government.  If there were flaws in the work of ASIO, AFP and/or NSW Police, they need to be identified and rectified immediately, not after a Royal Commission has spent 18 months or more examining the terrorist attack from a legal perspective.

I would never in a million years blame Howard or Tony Rundle for Port Arthur. Seems like a flimsy logic and a poor argument.

It really has nothing to do with blame Paul.  It is the actions of the Opposition that is under scrutiny here.  Howard, Abbott and Morrison enjoyed bipartisan support for their responses, as they should.  

Quote from: DJC – on December 23, 2025, 05:15:44 pm

Morrison was PM when an Australian nazi terrorist shot and killed 51 Muslim worshippers in New Zealand.  Abbott was PM when a Muslim terrorist took hostages in the Lindt Cafe, two of whom subsequently died from gunshot wounds.  Howard was PM when an Australian shot and killed 35 tourists at Port Arthur.

The common thread is that the Opposition adopted a bi-partisan approach and supported the Government's responses in each case.

You would expect the One Nation nutters to try to capitalise on any event but the politicisation of the Bondi tragedy by the Coalition is disgraceful.

The hysterical calls for a Royal Commission are probably understandable but should be ignored by good government.  If there were flaws in the work of ASIO, AFP and/or NSW Police, they need to be identified and rectified immediately, not after a Royal Commission has spent 18 months or more examining the terrorist attack from a legal perspective.

I would never in a million years blame Howard or Tony Rundle for Port Arthur. Seems like a flimsy logic and a poor argument.

It is embarrassing that so-called leaders apportion blame to the incumbent PM.

Holy mackerel this is a problem that goes back decades and centuries, FFS. Need I say that the shallowness and opportunism of some is breathtaking... and vulgar. (and Baggers steps down from his soapbox).