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Topic: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments  (Read 8697 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #60 –
I had blackberries and other invasive weeds on our place and actually had a use for machetes and scrub hooks, but exemptions are too hard.  The problem I have is that the perps don't hand in their stuff, so "In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king" so to speak with those types.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #61 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Machete amnesty bins cost $2,400 each.  The budget for the whole program - bins, advertising, collection, recycling, etc - is $13M, and there are 45 bins.

I was unhappy with little Johny Howard’s firearms ban - I lost my semi-auto .22 and 12 gauge - but I have to admit now that it was good public policy.

oh my...

Are you actually comparing the success of Howards guns laws with Jacinta machete bin debacle?

And the 'cost' of implementing this totally useless policy was a staggering $13M - pls dont try and downplay it by saying the 'bins actual cost' was $2400 as that just makes the whole thing even worse! HTF do they 'waste' over $12M of OUR money on this rubbish. All while cutting hospitals funding.

How many potholes does 12M fix? Disgusting governance whichever way you look at it.

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #62 –
Quote from: shawny – on
Quote from: DJC – on
Machete amnesty bins cost $2,400 each.  The budget for the whole program - bins, advertising, collection, recycling, etc - is $13M, and there are 45 bins.

I was unhappy with little Johny Howard’s firearms ban - I lost my semi-auto .22 and 12 gauge - but I have to admit now that it was good public policy.

oh my...

Are you actually comparing the success of Howards guns laws with Jacinta machete bin debacle?

And the 'cost' of implementing this totally useless policy was a staggering $13M - pls dont try and downplay it by saying the 'bins actual cost' was $2400 as that just makes the whole thing even worse! HTF do they 'waste' over $12M of OUR money on this rubbish. All while cutting hospitals funding.

How many potholes does 12M fix? Disgusting governance whichever way you look at it.

I did a firearms and prohibited weapons course last weekend.  The VicPol officers presenting have a very different view of the machete ban and see it as $13M well spent.  They are actually dealing with machete crime, but what would they know?

I’m exempted from the ban by the way, but I prefer to use other implements.
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #63 –
Does a firearms and prohibited weapons course pavd the way to a firearms license, I need the old "destruction of vermin" clause on my place
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #64 –
Quote from: Professer E – on
Does a firearms and prohibited weapons course pavd the way to a firearms license, I need the old "destruction of vermin" clause on my place

No, this was an RSL course that I did as manager of the collection of memorabilia at our RSL.

I foolishly let my shooter's licence expire in the 2000s and had to dispose of my firearms.  When we moved out of the burbs, I needed firearms again so I could control vermin at our place.

It was relatively simple to get a new shooter's licence.  You have to complete an evening course run by VicPol and Sporting Shooters and answer every question correctly (with a bit of prompting from the instructors).  My course was held at Waurn Ponds Police Station.  You then have to apply for a licence and that includes getting someone to verify that you're a suitable person, have a genuine reason (vermin control or just hunting), and you have to be a member of Sporting Shooters or Field and Game.  Your licence will be revoked if you let your membership lapse.

You have to have an approved gunsafe - and VicPol will come and check that your firearms are stored correctly - and then you can apply to purchase a firearm.  The firearms dealer walks you through the process and it takes around a month to get permission to purchase.  Any subsequent permits go through in a week or so.  I bought my gunsafe and firearms from Wild Outdoors in North Shore but Bunnings sells gunsafes.

The licence application process is set out here:

https://www.police.vic.gov.au/apply-for-a-new-firearm-licence
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #65 –
The machete bins are a disgrace.

You could not hand one back with 0 recourse.   Knife wielders will just pick up another sharp blade of a different size.  Maybe something like a tomahawk axe for gardening and chopping wood.

Its not like the gun thing.  Guns have a single purpose.  To shoot. 

The bins are simply about optics.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #66 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
The machete bins are a disgrace.

You could not hand one back with 0 recourse.   Knife wielders will just pick up another sharp blade of a different size.  Maybe something like a tomahawk axe for gardening and chopping wood.

Its not like the gun thing.  Guns have a single purpose.  To shoot. 

The bins are simply about optics.
Agree...The problem that I see is that the senior officials involved are not on the same page in terms of providing solutions and all have different ideas on how to solve the problem with the Government more interested in appeasing voters.
The new Police Commissioner Mike Bush a Kiwi himself favours the NZ model which is characterised by crime prevention, steering low-level offenders away from the judicial system with diversions and warnings.
However the Police Association(Union) have said  "I think the courts are failing in their connection to community," Police Association of Victoria secretary Wayne Gatt told ABC Radio Melbourne.
"There's a massive chasm between what the community expects and demands and what is delivered by the courts.
"We need to stop making excuses and we need to toughen the hell up."
Then you have  senior police officers like Assistant Commissioner Robert Hill last week said Victorians were feeling unsafe and frustrated amid the ongoing crime crisis.He indicated police were frustrated too and "There is an unacceptable level of crime occurring in the state of Victoria. Our police members are doing a magnificent job, but we can't be everywhere," he said.
He said appropriate consequences for wrongdoers would act as a decent deterrent.
Then looking at community programs for young offenders you find the Government claiming they have increased funding to these agencies but Blake Edwards from The Youth Junction, a youth crime prevention organisation based in Sunshine in Victoria's West, said the service and partner organisations have had their funding reduced in recent years.
He said at least 19 full-time roles working in youth case management and crime prevention initiatives had been cut across those organisations, which he estimated would impact 800 young people.
"What we're seeing at the moment is a small number of young people committing a large number of crimes,"  he said.
"So when we start taking away funding for the young people who are at risk of entering the justice system … my concern is that that small number who are committing a large number of crimes will grow substantially.
"When there's 800 young people that no longer can access services in Melbourne's west, that certainly is concerning."
He said the inconsistency in funding for crime prevention programs was also resulting in "poor outcomes for everybody".
"When you're working with highly skilled, highly experienced practitioners, who are providing services on the ground, it means that they never have job security," he said.
"It means that they are often leaving positions with three to six months of funding still left."

So IMO the system to deal with these issues is a mess with not much co-ordination and the machete bins etc are not really where the problem is and the affected parties are not on the same page.
re: The Bins....I think the problem is all the decent folk will hand in their machetes/large knives etc but the smaller group of offenders wont and the idea is compromised by other States not having the same laws nation wide  and the police cant control those who want to purchase them out of Victoria or by other shady means.

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #67 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Quote from: shawny – on


oh my...

Are you actually comparing the success of Howards guns laws with Jacinta machete bin debacle?

And the 'cost' of implementing this totally useless policy was a staggering $13M - pls dont try and downplay it by saying the 'bins actual cost' was $2400 as that just makes the whole thing even worse! HTF do they 'waste' over $12M of OUR money on this rubbish. All while cutting hospitals funding.

How many potholes does 12M fix? Disgusting governance whichever way you look at it.

I did a firearms and prohibited weapons course last weekend.  The VicPol officers presenting have a very different view of the machete ban and see it as $13M well spent.  They are actually dealing with machete crime, but what would they know?

I’m exempted from the ban by the way, but I prefer to use other implements.


sorry this is just rubbish talk.

i have quite a few police officers in the family and all jave the same thoughts and that is the current goverment is completely at odds with reality. 

love to know honestly ‘how many’ officers actually gave you that opinion.

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #68 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
The machete bins are a disgrace.

You could not hand one back with 0 recourse.   Knife wielders will just pick up another sharp blade of a different size.  Maybe something like a tomahawk axe for gardening and chopping wood.

Its not like the gun thing.  Guns have a single purpose.  To shoot. 

The bins are simply about optics.

I found some crazy looking mini axe in my mum's shed the other week. Looked like a viking weapon, she bought it off amazon to cut the branches off of some trees.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #69 –
Quote from: shawny – on
Quote from: DJC – on


I did a firearms and prohibited weapons course last weekend.  The VicPol officers presenting have a very different view of the machete ban and see it as $13M well spent.  They are actually dealing with machete crime, but what would they know?

I’m exempted from the ban by the way, but I prefer to use other implements.


sorry this is just rubbish talk.

i have quite a few police officers in the family and all jave the same thoughts and that is the current goverment is completely at odds with reality. 

love to know honestly ‘how many’ officers actually gave you that opinion.

I suspect we all have a few police officers in the family.  My late brother left as a detective sergeant and I was a military policeman and held an enforcement role throughout my civilian career.  My cousin recently retired as a police dog handler.  His sister was a policewoman for a while.  My brother in law’s step daughters are policewomen.  One of the officers killed in the Eastern Freeway tragedy was my nephew.  Several members of my RSL branch are serving or former police officers and the local police regularly attend our meetings.  Four mates from the Jeep Club are serving police officers and an old school friend who I occasionally catch up with recently retired with the rank of Inspector.

Of course, they don’t all have the same opinions but getting machetes and edged weapons off the streets is a priority for most.

Two police officers presented at the course and one spoke about the machete ban.
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #70 –
Where do you stop though. Machetes are ugly weapons no doubt but just looking around the kitchen or garage there are some pretty fearsome alternatives. The problem goes way beyond the choice and availability of a particular weapon.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #71 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
Where do you stop though. Machetes are ugly weapons no doubt but just looking around the kitchen or garage there are some pretty fearsome alternatives. The problem goes way beyond the choice and availability of a particular weapon.

Yep.

Its all about optics from the government. Look we made it safer.
Meanwhile, large kitchen knives and butchers cleavers crime skyrockets instead.

I've seen more than my fair share of horror movies to know that anything can be used as a weapon.

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #72 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
Where do you stop though. Machetes are ugly weapons no doubt but just looking around the kitchen or garage there are some pretty fearsome alternatives. The problem goes way beyond the choice and availability of a particular weapon.

Exactly Cookie - it's the people wielding the machetes that need to be dealt with.  However, making it hard for them to get their hands on machetes, swords, knives, firearms, etc is part of the solution.  Few, if any, social problems can be solved with just one preventative measure.

It's illegal to sell any knife to someone under 18 and it's illegal to carry any knife - even a multi-tool - unless you have a valid reason to do so, a chef taking his knives to work for example.  That stops the law-abiding folk but may not stop the crooks.  Fines and gaol time will discourage them as may family and peer pressure, education programs and proactive policing.
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball
 

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #73 –
From the HS
‘We need more prisons’: Pat, 76, woke with armed thugs inside her Brighton home
A brave Brighton grandmother has described the moment she confronted two knife-wielding men inside her loungeroom in the latest Bayside home invasion — and issued a plea for the state to get the crime crisis under control.

A 76 year old lady, come on guys. This farken beyond a joke now.

But nah, Jacinta says it's all good, nothing to see here Pat. Get back in your box.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #74 –
Obviously, a 76 year old is vulnerable, but shouldn't be the driver for outrage.  Yes, she will be affected in several different ways which may make her life difficult (eg fear of going out, recurring flashbacks, general feeling of being unsafe in her own home etc). 

We have gone through several times on the site about solutions - prevention and rehab programs, stronger initial penalties and stronger consequences for broken penalties eg bail.

Then it is about funding and real effectiveness of these solutions - jail can be school to become a less worse crook.

The new Chief seems to be strong on prevention - more police presence on the streets and education.  Be interesting to see the effect of the new bail laws that have just come into operation - I don't know what they are.

This all takes time.  It won't be solved tomorrow. 

Will it make a difference?  Dunno.  Youth crime seems to be much more brazen now - offenders don't care if there are alarms or cameras, whether it is 3am or 3pm, who sees them, whether there is anyone home etc.  It will take time to turn this around.

The Liberal policy seems to be Jack's law (greater search powers on the street), rehab (school, post offending programs, mentoring), and if bail is broken, a holiday courtesy of the King is awaiting.  Cynical me thinks that this won't make much difference and is a long way in the future.

Curious as to what it actually was or is that lead to the current situation - knowing what it is can help lead to the solution.