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Topic: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments  (Read 206539 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #480 –
I would not take an isolationist approach when comparing "the good old days" to the present. Global forces and global trends play a greater role in quality of life than ever before, and the role of governments is reduced. The rapid and extensive deindustrialization of the west, weakening labor movements, fiscal policies that disempower workers, the increasing inequality and concentration of wealth in the hands a few at the top, the affordability gap, and other factors have contributed to a reduced quality of life. There is no question that those at the top have made a concerted effort, over decades, to erode the gains that were achieved for working folks from the 1940's to the 70's.

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #481 –
Quote from: LP – on
It's not unusual for people getting older to think everything was better in days gone by!
Indeed. Most older people tend to live in the past, as the present starts to contract for them.
Unfortunately, it appears that the past has been significantly better than the present for Victoria, not just the fact that some of us are getting older.
Crime levels stand out to me. The police do seem overworked and under-resourced.
Last week I was involved in a car accident. An older gentleman appeared to have suffered some sort of medical episode, his car then accelerating into the side of my car, only to plow into the one in front of me, before accelerating through a red light, to hit another car front on. We had 3 police cars, an ambulance and a fire truck on site to deal with it. However, as there were no significant injuries, the police decided not to made an official report: too much work for something that insurance companies need only deal with.
I found this perplexing, to say the least. But, it was explained to me that the local police were simply too busy to worry about something where nobody was hurt and all of the parties agreed on what happened,
Live Long and Prosper!

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #482 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
The policy is a wank, but you should blame the Hon Jeff Kennett, who introduced the policy in 1999, thinking he was a shoo-in for a 3rd term and an ugly statue.

I would be curious to know how many taxpayers there are in Victoria, and what the actual cost would be to each of them. Bugger all I suspect. If nothing else, Andrews certainly deserves credit for being able to live rent free in his enemies' heads.

Where was the outrage when Jeff Kennett intoduced the statue policy?  Ironically, Kennett is now outraged over the Andrews statue, but that has to be down to sour grapes.

I used to walk past the statues quite regularly and they do provide an eye-catching artistic commentary of Victoria's political history.  I think that each of the statues captures the essence of its subject, with the exception of Albert Dunstan, who I wouldn't know from a bar of soap.  $134K is peanuts and Andrews is more worthy of a statue than the scandal-ridden Henry Bolte, with his disdain of social justice and penchant for manufacturing crises to achieve his political ends.
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #483 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Quote from: PaulP – on
The policy is a wank, but you should blame the Hon Jeff Kennett, who introduced the policy in 1999, thinking he was a shoo-in for a 3rd term and an ugly statue.

I would be curious to know how many taxpayers there are in Victoria, and what the actual cost would be to each of them. Bugger all I suspect. If nothing else, Andrews certainly deserves credit for being able to live rent free in his enemies' heads.

Where was the outrage when Jeff Kennett intoduced the statue policy?  Ironically, Kennett is now outraged over the Andrews statue, but that has to be down to sour grapes.

I used to walk past the statues quite regularly and they do provide an eye-catching artistic commentary of Victoria's political history.  I think that each of the statues captures the essence of its subject, with the exception of Albert Dunstan, who I wouldn't know from a bar of soap.  $134K is peanuts and Andrews is more worthy of a statue than the scandal-ridden Henry Bolte, with his disdain of social justice and penchant for manufacturing crises to achieve his political ends.
I believe it was uttered at the poll booth when he was ousted from his next term.

Either way, I wasnt old enough to vote at the time, as I was only 16 and in year 11, and definitely didnt notice this policy as I was busy following my hormones wherever they would lead me, and at the time, Carlton were actually good to watch so definitely couldnt have cared about statues.

But, whats a pittance here and there between pollies?  Its not like we have a runaway debt crisis, and severe financial storms.

No one mandated it had to be the case either, it was just a policy.  Something that can be cancelled at any time.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #484 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Where was the outrage when Jeff Kennett intoduced the statue policy?  Ironically, Kennett is now outraged over the Andrews statue, but that has to be down to sour grapes.

I used to walk past the statues quite regularly and they do provide an eye-catching artistic commentary of Victoria's political history.  I think that each of the statues captures the essence of its subject, with the exception of Albert Dunstan, who I wouldn't know from a bar of soap.  $134K is peanuts and Andrews is more worthy of a statue than the scandal-ridden Henry Bolte, with his disdain of social justice and penchant for manufacturing crises to achieve his political ends.

Statues of politicians and other leaders are very common and nothing new. IMO a storm in a tea cup. There seems to be a spectrum of grievances on here and I can't quite disentangle them.

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #486 –
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2026/may/14/109-charges-dropped-14-year-old-girl-victoria-labor-jacinta-allan-tougher-consequences-young-offenders-ntwnfb


Gonna, gonna, gonna........ All you ever hear from this government.

And today on the news the 4 charged with fire bombing of a liquor business completly destroying it causing 3M in damage not to mention the loss of 10 jobs as the business is obviously gone. Well 2 of the charged were in court today and both were released on bail! Can you fking believe it. I can. 

The other 2 are in tomorrow but don't worry boys you will be on the streets before dusk.

Disgraceful regardless of which side of politics you support.   

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #487 –
Quote from: shawny – on
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2026/may/14/109-charges-dropped-14-year-old-girl-victoria-labor-jacinta-allan-tougher-consequences-young-offenders-ntwnfb


Gonna, gonna, gonna........ All you ever hear from this government.

Disgraceful regardless of which side of politics you support.
I think you are confused @shawny

Politicians make the laws, courts and police are entrusted to enforce them and hand out justice.

In Australia we have the separation of powers, so that people facing court after being charged by police cannot become a victim of political will. It also stops Australian policians rigging the result to award themself billion$ in damages while the average person can't afford eggs.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #488 –
According to the police OIC, all of those responsible for the fire bombings have been apprehended and charged.  Apparently they get paid $20K for each job.

It seems that the organised crime gang behind the fire bombings is likely to be an offshore operation so particularly difficult for the police to crack.

Yes the government could introduce laws to make it harder for these crime gangs to operate but they’d never be passed by the upper house and would be a severe restriction on our civil liberties.

The government has already tightened bail laws but, again, they can only go so far before their laws are deemed to be unconstitutional.
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #489 –
Quote from: DJC – on
According to the police OIC, all of those responsible for the fire bombings have been apprehended and charged.  Apparently they get paid $20K for each job.

It seems that the organised crime gang behind the fire bombings is likely to be an offshore operation so particularly difficult for the police to crack.

Yes the government could introduce laws to make it harder for these crime gangs to operate but they’d never be passed by the upper house and would be a severe restriction on our civil liberties.

The government has already tightened bail laws but, again, they can only go so far before their laws are deemed to be unconstitutional.
I want to understand the reasoning behind arresting those responsible for pouring petrol on a building and lighting it and then releasing them with a slap on the wrist. Ill bet both my balls they got out and set fire to another building and collect another 20K each. Sounds like easy work, might consider it myself. Perhaps we should go around to schools and promote this lucrative and entrepreneurial business.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #490 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Quote from: DJC – on
According to the police OIC, all of those responsible for the fire bombings have been apprehended and charged.  Apparently they get paid $20K for each job.

It seems that the organised crime gang behind the fire bombings is likely to be an offshore operation so particularly difficult for the police to crack.

Yes the government could introduce laws to make it harder for these crime gangs to operate but they’d never be passed by the upper house and would be a severe restriction on our civil liberties.

The government has already tightened bail laws but, again, they can only go so far before their laws are deemed to be unconstitutional.
I want to understand the reasoning behind arresting those responsible for pouring petrol on a building and lighting it and then releasing them with a slap on the wrist. Ill bet both my balls they got out and set fire to another building and collect another 20K each. Sounds like easy work, might consider it myself. Perhaps we should go around to schools and promote this lucrative and entrepreneurial business.

I guess it's down to the fundamental legal principle that "Everyone charged with a criminal offence shall have the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law."  The fact that the arsonists are all teenagers goes in their favour too.

The latest three arsonists arrested, one of whom set himself on fire  ;D , have been charged with aggravated burglary, criminal damage by fire, handling stolen goods, committing an indictable offence while on bail and possession of cannabis.  Committing an indictable offence while on bail means revocation of bail and a mandatory three months behind bars in addition to any other sanctions. Sadly though, I don't believe that these kids will be deterred or reformed by prison.
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #491 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
I want to understand the reasoning behind arresting those responsible for pouring petrol on a building and lighting it and then releasing them with a slap on the wrist. Ill bet both my balls they got out and set fire to another building and collect another 20K each. Sounds like easy work, might consider it myself. Perhaps we should go around to schools and promote this lucrative and entrepreneurial business.

I guess it's down to the fundamental legal principle that "Everyone charged with a criminal offence shall have the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law."  The fact that the arsonists are all teenagers goes in their favour too.

The latest three arsonists arrested, one of whom set himself on fire  ;D , have been charged with aggravated burglary, criminal damage by fire, handling stolen goods, committing an indictable offence while on bail and possession of cannabis.  Committing an indictable offence while on bail means revocation of bail and a mandatory three months behind bars in addition to any other sanctions. Sadly though, I don't believe that these kids will be deterred or reformed by prison.

Innocent until proven guilty, sure.

But there is taking the piss. If what you say is true, one was caught 'red handed', that is literally burned in the process! Yet is still innocent and allowed to roam free. Surely there has to be a bit more common sense in this.
 

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #492 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Quote from: DJC – on


I guess it's down to the fundamental legal principle that "Everyone charged with a criminal offence shall have the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law."  The fact that the arsonists are all teenagers goes in their favour too.

The latest three arsonists arrested, one of whom set himself on fire  ;D , have been charged with aggravated burglary, criminal damage by fire, handling stolen goods, committing an indictable offence while on bail and possession of cannabis.  Committing an indictable offence while on bail means revocation of bail and a mandatory three months behind bars in addition to any other sanctions. Sadly though, I don't believe that these kids will be deterred or reformed by prison.

Innocent until proven guilty, sure.

But there is taking the piss. If what you say is true, one was caught 'red handed', that is literally burned in the process! Yet is still innocent and allowed to roam free. Surely there has to be a bit more common sense in this.

Judges/magistrates have to operate on the presumption of innocence, regardless of the weight of evidence.  Bail can only be refused if the offender is a flight risk, or might commit further offences, is a danger to the public, or might interfere with witnesses.

These three geniuses have been charged with committing an indictable offence while on bail and I believe that will result in them being remanded in custody - as they should be!
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #493 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
I want to understand the reasoning behind arresting those responsible for pouring petrol on a building and lighting it and then releasing them with a slap on the wrist. Ill bet both my balls they got out and set fire to another building and collect another 20K each. Sounds like easy work, might consider it myself. Perhaps we should go around to schools and promote this lucrative and entrepreneurial business.

I guess it's down to the fundamental legal principle that "Everyone charged with a criminal offence shall have the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law."  The fact that the arsonists are all teenagers goes in their favour too.

The latest three arsonists arrested, one of whom set himself on fire  ;D , have been charged with aggravated burglary, criminal damage by fire, handling stolen goods, committing an indictable offence while on bail and possession of cannabis.  Committing an indictable offence while on bail means revocation of bail and a mandatory three months behind bars in addition to any other sanctions. Sadly though, I don't believe that these kids will be deterred or reformed by prison.
Didnt the 3 kids who did the last one get released and asked to service community orders or some BS like that?
I for one, along with business owners whose premisses they torched Im sure, would feel happier and safer with these maggots rotting in jail. I couldnt give a fark whether they rehabilitate or not. Pay your proper dues in jail and if you do it again, you'll go in again and pay some more. Nuffs enuff.
PS hope the little kent is in a lot of pain from his burns. Hope it hurts a lot because it's probably the most punishment he'll get.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership