Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

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Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #210 – Today at 11:04:27 am

Quote from: Thryleon – on December 20, 2025, 09:58:55 pm

its war.

In war there are winners and losers.

Even in war, win or lose, combatants go to trial and often jail for targeting and killing women and children, I think the legal name for it is genocide!

As an aside I have some very good friends who are Iranian, they had to flee their own country due to radicals, leaving behind a beautiful family home with hundreds of years of heritage. For people here to look at them and label them amongst the same radicals that they had to flee, radicals who destroy their country, is also in my opinion criminal and racist. But that is what some including local Israeli lobbyists do on a daily basis, they claim my friends have no place in Australia because of the behaviour of criminals back in the country they had to flee.

Blokes like Frydenberg and Netanyahu seem to willfully ignore the hypocrisy of that behaviour just for political point scoring, and destroy any unity the world has managed to build in the process. But there are crooks on both sides, there are just as many Imans guilty of this as there are Israeli politicians.

That psalm or proverb, or whatever you want to call it, about casting the first stone, it's a wise set of words and I suspect it exists for a reason, somebody somewhere learned a lesson and didn't ignore it.

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #211 – Today at 11:11:17 am

To me, it looks like a settler colonial project, not a war.

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #212 – Today at 11:18:26 am

Whatever it is, it is. The Palestinians might have wanted to think harder about their musical festival stance a couple of years ago.

IMHO, you dont provoke the bear and then complain when it attacks. Sure, let's not go all out and bomb innocent children and women, but the anniversary of a certain event just past in greek history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dance_of_Zalongo

The women and children are always impacted in these power struggles but of not for growing independence from ottoman rule would it have occurred? Their options were, pay the jizziah (spelling), convert to Islam and bow to ottoman rule or protect their ideology and become martyrs.

This isnt a condoning of it. Its just reality. A price paid to secure independence from ottoman rule. Thing is, there are no guarantees and that doesnt guarantee an outcome.

These things are going to happen and continue happening and whilst we live in easy prosperous times, wait until resources become scarce and watch what happens. This wont be about religion. Its always been about the supply chain of important goods, but when you have people squabbling over borders and territory the unfortunate wash out is the innocents become displaced.

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #213 – Today at 11:22:07 am

Gutless bullies, not matter which side of the fence they dwell on, always go after the weakest target.

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #214 – Today at 12:31:06 pm

The bottom line is that the International Criminal Court (ICC) issued arrest warrants for Netanyahu and Yoav Gallant, the former Minister of Defense of Israel, alleging responsibility for the war crime of starvation as a method of warfare and the crimes against humanity of murder, persecution, and other inhumane acts during the Gaza war. Even in war there are lines that aren't crossed by civilised countries or their leaders.

A subsequent UN Commission of Inquiry called for genocide charges to be added to the warrant after finding the Israeli government guilty of multiple violations of the 1948 Genocide Convention.

The ICC also issued an arrest warrant for Hamas military commander Mohammed Deif but it was later learned that he had been killed in an Israeli airstrike.

Just as all Jews aren't Zionists or Israelis, very few Palestinians are Hamas. Israel's Palestinian genocide is a disproportionate response to Hamas terrorism.

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #215 – Today at 12:46:28 pm

Not saying it isnt, and whilst we like to place rules on this, where were these rules when Islamic militants abducted innocent party goers at a music festival?

This isnt sports. With a referee that can adjudicate, and when the Palestinians hide their militants in the gen pop and under hospitals then what is expected?

I know there are rules of conduct and what not, but whos rules are they? History is always written by the victor.

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #216 – Today at 12:59:28 pm

Quote from: DJC – on Today at 12:31:06 pm

The bottom line is that the International Criminal Court (ICC) issued arrest warrants for Netanyahu and Yoav Gallant, the former Minister of Defense of Israel, alleging responsibility for the war crime of starvation as a method of warfare and the crimes against humanity of murder, persecution, and other inhumane acts during the Gaza war. Even in war there are lines that aren't crossed by civilised countries or their leaders.

A subsequent UN Commission of Inquiry called for genocide charges to be added to the warrant after finding the Israeli government guilty of multiple violations of the 1948 Genocide Convention.

The ICC also issued an arrest warrant for Hamas military commander Mohammed Deif but it was later learned that he had been killed in an Israeli airstrike.

Just as all Jews aren't Zionists or Israelis, very few Palestinians are Hamas. Israel's Palestinian genocide is a disproportionate response to Hamas terrorism.

That's no excuse to bring their wars to Australia.Last time I checked Bondi beach wasnt connected to the Gaza strip.
Same with these pro Palestinian demonstrations where Australian Flags are burnt and ISIS flags are flown, it's got nothing to do with Australia and we are not a battleground for religious holy wars.
Albanese by his own admission hasn't done enough, sat on his Envoys report for 5 months and now we are having to look over our shoulder every time we shop at Westfield or Myer during the Christmas period. NSW police now want Rifles so they have more firepower...too little , too late from Albo and now our once safe country is a war zone.

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #217 – Today at 03:56:45 pm

Quote from: LP – on Today at 11:22:07 am

Gutless bullies, not matter which side of the fence they dwell on, always go after the weakest target.

Well said, Spotted One.

No matter our chosen political or religious view when defenseless, innocent folks attempting to go about their daily lives are slaughtered, starved or persecuted, we're simply witnessing profane cowardice.

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #218 – Today at 05:29:15 pm

Quote from: Thryleon – on Today at 12:46:28 pm

Not saying it isnt, and whilst we like to place rules on this, where were these rules when Islamic militants abducted innocent party goers at a music festival?

No outrage, no action, people were horrified by it but it was all a bit meh. The world stood by and did SFA. As soon as the retaliation started, outrage, protests, sanctions, you name it. Australian Councillors wearing keffiyehs in session, anti semitic graffiti on business, no action. Disgraceful.

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #219 – Today at 05:44:33 pm

Quote from: Baggers – on Today at 03:56:45 pm

Quote from: LP – on Today at 11:22:07 am
Gutless bullies, not matter which side of the fence they dwell on, always go after the weakest target.

Well said, Spotted One.

No matter our chosen political or religious view when defenseless, innocent folks attempting to go about their daily lives are slaughtered, starved or persecuted, we're simply witnessing profane cowardice.

Can't argue with that.
Unfortunately, there are those who feel the only way they can get their point across is to hurt the innocent. And it isn't just terrorists, as much as I dislike them. Look at the demonstrations: they aren't helping anyone, but they are hurting innocents (although mainly financially). And they certainly stimulate people against their cause, no matter how 'good' it might be.

One of our advantages a century ago was that we were literally half a world away. Modern communications and transportation has changed that. Not all of the consequences are positive, not are they ever likely to be so: anything can be misused if someone tries hard enough.
But I much preferred it when people left their wars behind them and came here for a new start: it is what Australia was founded for. But now it is hard to leave anything behind.

Should it influence our policy on immigration? I would prefer not. Australia being a melting pot has been a very good thing. But, some minority definitely have more influence than others. We have a lot more Buddhists in Australia than Muslims, for one example, yet which group is more vocal in wanting its tenants followed?
Does changing our migration policies make us racist? A good question. I would think so, but I do not want extremists from anywhere coming here and disrupting our society. But how do you identify them? How much of the economy should be spent on such things?

Gun laws: we already have quite restrictive gun laws. Do they need tightening? Possibly. There certainly seems to be a crack in which the Bondi terrorists fell through. Actually following up on the laws we have seem to be pretty difficult for law enforcement.
I think people should be able to have guns if they have use for them, and a licence to show it. But what sort of guns? And I certainly don't think we should be like the USA, where they have guns everywhere. That gives them incidents like Bondi on a weekly basis.
A country where all citizens are armed is Switzerland. They have laws that control their guns. They don't have mass shootings. The US should look at their model; it makes a lot more sense of you want an armed populous.
I don't think that is what we want here. We just have to work out how to control them effectively.

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #220 – Today at 06:03:16 pm

Quote from: LP – on Today at 11:22:07 am

Gutless bullies, not matter which side of the fence they dwell on, always go after the weakest target.

You cant get anymore gutless they to stand on a bridge picking off innocent men women and children with a high powered weapon all about a conflict on the other side of the world.

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #221 – Today at 06:13:41 pm

Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on Today at 12:59:28 pm

Quote from: DJC – on Today at 12:31:06 pm
The bottom line is that the International Criminal Court (ICC) issued arrest warrants for Netanyahu and Yoav Gallant, the former Minister of Defense of Israel, alleging responsibility for the war crime of starvation as a method of warfare and the crimes against humanity of murder, persecution, and other inhumane acts during the Gaza war. Even in war there are lines that aren't crossed by civilised countries or their leaders.

A subsequent UN Commission of Inquiry called for genocide charges to be added to the warrant after finding the Israeli government guilty of multiple violations of the 1948 Genocide Convention.

The ICC also issued an arrest warrant for Hamas military commander Mohammed Deif but it was later learned that he had been killed in an Israeli airstrike.

Just as all Jews aren't Zionists or Israelis, very few Palestinians are Hamas. Israel's Palestinian genocide is a disproportionate response to Hamas terrorism.
That's no excuse to bring their wars to Australia.Last time I checked Bondi beach wasnt connected to the Gaza strip.
Same with these pro Palestinian demonstrations where Australian Flags are burnt and ISIS flags are flown, it's got nothing to do with Australia and we are not a battleground for religious holy wars.
Albanese by his own admission hasn't done enough, sat on his Envoys report for 5 months and now we are having to look over our shoulder every time we shop at Westfield or Myer during the Christmas period. NSW police now want Rifles so they have more firepower...too little , too late from Albo and now our once safe country is a war zone.

spot on as usual Eb.

why allow protests when relating to oversea issues? they are fanatical and protests builds unity among them and just strengthens there beliefs until they end up taking thinga into their own hands when the issues are not resolved

We are way too soft here we allow their hatred to grow and manifest until one of them does an evil act and the innocent are slaughtered. Same as our p1ssweak sentencing - they gave bail (was later revoked) to the nutcase who stabbed that poor innovent chef a few months back in the city. disgusting and weak and the sorts that commit these vile acts prey on the weak so unless we get serious and make big changes its going to happen again.

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #222 – Today at 06:46:30 pm

To be honest, I dont know what the answers are to the problems we face here that are related to issues overseas, smarter and more tolerant people than me might figure it out (hopefully). What I do know, and I think we can all agree on, is that these acts of violence on our shores are so un Australian it's not funny. Once upon a time, I felt comfort in that fact that the vast expanses of water surrounding an our great land was the worlds greatest DH and Issue filter. I feel like that powers that be have allowed this comfort to be eroded away. I feel like the smarter we have become as a society in general, the dumber we have actually become. What I mean by that is despite the wealth of knowledge available at everyone's fingertips, we've outsmarted ourselves and neglected the basics. I used the word tolerant above, I wonder if that's the crux of the problem? Perhaps there needs to be a better balance between hard ass laws/policies and tolerance, I think it's swayed too much one way and here we are. People are scared at home at night, people are scared in shopping centres, people are scared walking down the street, people are scared gathering at church, sporting events, concerts etc. I never in my wildest dreams thought Australia would be like this. I dont know the answers but I sure as hell know something aint right.

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #223 – Today at 07:03:29 pm

Quote from: Thryleon – on Today at 12:46:28 pm

Not saying it isnt, and whilst we like to place rules on this, where were these rules when Islamic militants abducted innocent party goers at a music festival?

This isnt sports. With a referee that can adjudicate, and when the Palestinians hide their militants in the gen pop and under hospitals then what is expected?

I know there are rules of conduct and what not, but whos rules are they? History is always written by the victor.

That's the thing though Thry, the terrorists who attacked innocent Israelis aren't professional soldiers, don't wear a uniform, don't answer to a government and aren't bound by the rules that govern conflicts between nations. If they are apprehended, they are charged with terrorism offences (although the ICC did charge the now dead head of Hamas with war crimes). When I was a member of the ADF, I was taught the provisions of the Geneva and Hague Conventions and regularly reminded to comply with them at all times. Of course, professional soldiers may find it hard to adhere to the rules when the enemy doesn't, as we saw in Afghanistan.

Israel is a party to all four Geneva Conventions of 1949 and is legally bound by their rules ... and they're the first to bleat if any IDF personnel are not treated in accordance with the conventions.

Again, you're falling into the trap of assuming that the militants represent all Palestinians and all Palestinians are militants. The vast majority of Palestinians just want the Israelis and Hamas to leave them alone and they are not hiding "their militants" anywhere.

The 7 October attacks killed 1,195 people, 815 of whom were Israeli civilians. In addition, around 250 people were taken hostage and many of them haven't survived. The Israeli offensive that followed has killed 70,925 Palestinians, foreign aid workers and reporters and another 171,185 have been wounded. Around 1,200 IDF personnel have been killed since 7 October, on all fronts. Since the "ceasefire", 379 Palestinians, including 70 children, have been killed and three IDF soldiers have died. Those figures aren't surprising when you have one of the largest, most ruthless and well-equipped military forces waging war on unarmed civilians and defenceless children.

Hamas was estimated to have between 20-40,000 fighters of varying capacity and access to weapons in October 2023. The IDF claims to have killed around 17,000 to 23,000 militants (that's around one third of Palestinian casualties) since then. Of course, the ongoing persecution of Palestinians is likely to radicalise more fighters but there's a finite number.

The ICC is the referee that adjudicates war crimes.

I'm not a fan of protests generally and I don't think the pro-Palestinian rallies will change anyone's mind, or government policies. However, as Judith Treanor, a Jewish small business owner, points out,

"Those advocating for restrictions on pro-Palestinian protests must acknowledge the diversity of Jewish perspectives. Many Jews, including members of anti-Zionist groups like Jews Against the Occupation '48, Tzedek Collective, and the Loud Jew Collective, actively participate in these weekly rallies, standing in solidarity with Palestinians suffering atrocities in Gaza and the West Bank.

Globally, anti-Zionist Jewish groups echo this support. In the U.S., Jewish Voice for Peace and lfNotNow have organised mass protests. Orthodox groups like Torah Jews for Justice have taken clear anti-Zionist stances. In London, the UJewish Bloc" within pro-Palestine rallies numbers in the hundreds, including Holocaust survivors. Na'amod, a contributing group, emphasises that uonly when Palestinians live in freedom and dignity will Israel have security.

These groups, like ours, reject the notion that Zionism represents all Jews. The atrocities committed by Israel are not done in ourtives. Many Jews, including members of anti-Zionist groups like Jews Against the Occupation '48, Tzedek Collective, and the Loud Jew Collective, actively participate in these weekly rallies, standing in solidarity with Palestinians suffering atrocities in Gaza and the West Bank.

Globally, anti-Zionist Jewish groups echo this support. In the U.S., Jewish Voice for Peace and lfNotNow have organised mass protests. Orthodox groups like Torah Jews for Justice have taken clear anti-Zionist stances. In London, the UJewish Bloc" within pro-Palestine rallies numbers in the hundreds, including Holocaust survivors. Na'amod, a contributing group, emphasises that uonly when Palestinians live in freedom and dignity will Israel have security.

These groups, like ours, reject the notion that Zionism represents all Jews. The atrocities committed by Israel are not done in our name."

You can read Judith's letter here: chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/lcdocs/other/21804/Judith%20Treanor,%20Pearls%20and%20Irritations,%2029%20January%202025.pdf

Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments

Reply #224 – Today at 08:05:12 pm

An exercise in hypocrisy!

Josh Frydenberg, ever the opportunist, is criticising the Government's position on hate speech but he strongly advocated weakening existing hate speech legislation when he was an MP.