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Topic: How will we line up in 2025. (Read 50806 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #150 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
I'll agree to disagree, interested in what others think of Young and his pros and cons.
My impressions were based on his first season compared to what he has dished up since and in his first season he did show what is required effort wise but since then its been a dramatic turn around and I cant understand why?
Being told to look around isnt exactly and endorsement of his abilities unless the coaching staff are trying to shock him back into his first seasons form.

In his exit interview, Young expressed his desire to play more senior footy, as you would.  He was given two options and he went with the "stay at the club and work harder" option.  That's just a little different than being told to look around.

I think that his problem is not lack of effort but is more about not coping with how the defence was tweaked for last season.  While it may difficult for Young to play the way Vossy wants, it shouldn't be too hard adjust the defence to cover his tendency to slow our transition down.  Perhaps that will be Haynes' task.
Carlton’s Matt Kennedy and Lewis Young look set to remain at Ikon Park, reports AFL Media’s Cal Twomey.

The duo had been told that they were free to look around the competition for a move this off-season, but with no obvious takers, Twomey says they’re now more likely to stay than go.
I think the lack of interest from other clubs in a market short of tall defenders is a tell tale sign that Youngs abilities are not rated that highly by most clubs. He is on a nice contract at Carlton and it will be interesting to see the clubs attitude towards him at the end of 2025. Haynes will be doing the intercept/rebound role you would imagine, he isnt a KP player like Young but we wont argue that point as its been covered over and over  and it will be interesting to see how the DGB/Philips/S. Durdin fight for a place on the list works out. Id imagine we will ignore having a true CHB and try and cheat with one or two of Haynes/Kemp/McGovern depending on who we are playing.

Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #151 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Id imagine we will ignore having a true CHB and try and cheat with one or two of Haynes/Kemp/McGovern depending on who we are playing.
It's the modern way @ElwoodBlues1 , a true CHF / CHB setup slows ball movement, blokes are either out on the flanks and away, or slicing through the corridor, they run the ball past the traditional CHF / CHB positions.

Even if there are shallow entries it is the mobile FF line that is up on the arc, the only KPF that got hold of us last season was Hogan, he's not a traditional KPF mover, and it was off the back of playing blokes half injured!

As an aside. I doubt Young will help against that type of player, players like Weitering and McGovern have the bandwidth, Young doesn't.

When we've been undone I've been quite disappointed in our MC getting the D50 match ups wrong. We've left blokes like Kemp and Young marooned. I suspect we burnt the ships, and went all-in on stopping the ball getting into our D50, and failed!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #152 –
Quote
In his exit interview, Young expressed his desire to play more senior footy, as you would.  He was given two options and he went with the "stay at the club and work harder" option.  That's just a little different than being told to look around.

Quote
Carlton’s Matt Kennedy and Lewis Young look set to remain at Ikon Park, reports AFL Media’s Cal Twomey.

The duo had been told that they were free to look around the competition for a move this off-season, but with no obvious takers, Twomey says they’re now more likely to stay than go.

Those statements are not contradictory.

What is obvious is  that Young was told he couldn't be guaranteed a spot in the senior side.
He was told he could pursue his options and see if other clubs could give him that guarantee.
Given his indifferent form last season that's probably a fair position for the club to take.

What is not obvious is whether Young did have a look around or, whether he took the challenge and decided to fight for his spot.
Whichever way it played out, he is still on the list.

Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #153 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Whichever way it played out, he is still on the list.
I think a far bigger question remains, and it is related to the subjective observation that he is still on our list and it appears he hasn't changed.

Sooner or later surely a coach gets the blow torch on this issue, we seem to be recidivists!

Of all the players on our list, to me only players who seem to have evolved at all are the self-motivated types, Cripps, Cottrell, Newman, etc., etc..

Other than Liam Jones, I can't think of one recent player who we have successfully coached into unambiguous positive development, and the coach responsible for Liam was sacked!

I think Power has done well at a team level, and maybe Kreuzer is getting the best out of Pitto with TDK on the rise, but I just can't see any others in Development that have greatly influenced an individual.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #154 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Quote
In his exit interview, Young expressed his desire to play more senior footy, as you would.  He was given two options and he went with the "stay at the club and work harder" option.  That's just a little different than being told to look around.

Quote
Carlton’s Matt Kennedy and Lewis Young look set to remain at Ikon Park, reports AFL Media’s Cal Twomey.

The duo had been told that they were free to look around the competition for a move this off-season, but with no obvious takers, Twomey says they’re now more likely to stay than go.

Those statements are not contradictory.

What is obvious is  that Young was told he couldn't be guaranteed a spot in the senior side.
He was told he could pursue his options and see if other clubs could give him that guarantee.
Given his indifferent form last season that's probably a fair position for the club to take.

What is not obvious is whether Young did have a look around or, whether he took the challenge and decided to fight for his spot.
Whichever way it played out, he is still on the list.

What is obvious is that the club doesn't rate him that highly, in that, they wouldn't mind if they lost him.

Why that doesn't send alarm bells to everyone suprises me no end.

Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #155 –
https://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/1702473?fbclid=IwY2xjawG_c6VleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHRurPqBUixSeKrQKBqVXtMmoD3MxNEsc-Eb6kIqvdmCZ2LzUSlYeyFvOKw_aem_kkwmmBkQNLCd5LoIRVE6sw

Quote
It originally came out of necessity.

But Brodie Kemp expects to be playing a fair bit more in the forward line in 2025. And he’s mighty glad to be doing it in Navy Blue.

The period between August and October was, self-admittedly, an “interesting one” for Kemp. It all began in the trip to Perth, when the Blues identified early in the week that Kemp was their man to lead the attack following injuries to Harry McKay and Charlie Curnow.

Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #156 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Quote from: Lods – on




Those statements are not contradictory.

What is obvious is  that Young was told he couldn't be guaranteed a spot in the senior side.
He was told he could pursue his options and see if other clubs could give him that guarantee.
Given his indifferent form last season that's probably a fair position for the club to take.

What is not obvious is whether Young did have a look around or, whether he took the challenge and decided to fight for his spot.
Whichever way it played out, he is still on the list.

What is obvious is that the club doesn't rate him that highly, in that, they wouldn't mind if they lost him.

Why that doesn't send alarm bells to everyone suprises me no end.

What is obvious is the club doesn't seem to share the same concerns about our lack of a second big key defender as some of us. ;)  ;D

It may be that they're quite comfortable that we have the personnel and strategies to combat opposition forward lines.

Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #157 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Quote from: kruddler – on


What is obvious is that the club doesn't rate him that highly, in that, they wouldn't mind if they lost him.

Why that doesn't send alarm bells to everyone suprises me no end.

What is obvious is the club doesn't seem to share the same concerns about our lack of a second big key defender as some of us. ;)  ;D

It may be that they're quite comfortable that we have the personnel and strategies to combat opposition forward lines.

Of all the years to say that, i think this is the one you can't.

For the first time in a long time they have tried to address this. Haynes recruitment. Akieu, Marchbank, Durdin delistings. Drafting of O'Farrell. Suggesting Young may not be up to it. Switching Kemp forward. Having train ons like Phillips (KPD).

To me it says they are very much trying to rework that area. Albeit, half a decade too late.
But.....better late than never.

Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #158 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Quote from: kruddler – on


What is obvious is that the club doesn't rate him that highly, in that, they wouldn't mind if they lost him.

Why that doesn't send alarm bells to everyone suprises me no end.

What is obvious is the club doesn't seem to share the same concerns about our lack of a second big key defender as some of us. ;)  ;D

It may be that they're quite comfortable that we have the personnel and strategies to combat opposition forward lines.

Having the sixth worst defense for points against wouldnt make me think we had the personnel/strategies, I would have thought your defense probably needs to be in the top four best to win a premiership?

Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #159 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Carlton’s Matt Kennedy and Lewis Young look set to remain at Ikon Park, reports AFL Media’s Cal Twomey.

The duo had been told that they were free to look around the competition for a move this off-season, but with no obvious takers, Twomey says they’re now more likely to stay than go.

Cal Twomey getting it half right and paraphrasing what Nick Austin actually said ... not that Austin repeated the exit interview conversation verbatim.

Before the wheels fell off midway through the season, we were premiership favourites with most experts, despite our slightly vertically challenged key defenders.  There's no reason why we couldn't follow the same tack, even with Kemp seemingly destined to play as a forward.  We just won't be able to afford lapses in our team defence or not having a defensive mindset at stoppages.  I guess it's a high risk strategy that could produce high rewards if we get it right.

I'm in favour of a horses for courses approach and I don't mind going with one tall KPD if the opposition has only one tall KPF and doesn't rest their first ruck in the forward line.  In all other cases, I'd prefer our KPDs to have a bit of size, even if it does slow our transition from time to time.  
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #160 –
It's not just playing with two specialist KP defenders but also having proper backup for Weitering if he gets injured.

Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #161 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Quote from: Lods – on


What is obvious is the club doesn't seem to share the same concerns about our lack of a second big key defender as some of us. ;)  ;D

It may be that they're quite comfortable that we have the personnel and strategies to combat opposition forward lines.

Having the sixth worst defense for points against wouldnt make me think we had the personnel/strategies, I would have thought your defense probably needs to be in the top four best to win a premiership?

I agree but the ranking of our defence, is that because our defense sucks or because opposition hb’s are waltzing through the midfield unopposed and delivering laces out to their forwards ?
It’s an important distinction that needs to be made.
Let’s go BIG !

Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #162 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
It's not just playing with two specialist KP defenders but also having proper backup for Weitering if he gets injured.



I don’t believe we can have a proper backup up for Weitering, no Rolls Royce is going to sit in the magoos until Weiters goes down.
A backup will be someone with a bit of size who can play a role, hopefully…
Let’s go BIG !

Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #163 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Quote from: Lods – on


What is obvious is the club doesn't seem to share the same concerns about our lack of a second big key defender as some of us. ;)  ;D

It may be that they're quite comfortable that we have the personnel and strategies to combat opposition forward lines.

Of all the years to say that, i think this is the one you can't.

For the first time in a long time they have tried to address this. Haynes recruitment. Akieu, Marchbank, Durdin delistings. Drafting of O'Farrell. Suggesting Young may not be up to it. Switching Kemp forward. Having train ons like Phillips (KPD).

To me it says they are very much trying to rework that area. Albeit, half a decade too late.
But.....better late than never.

So in effect, what some of us see as the 'important' piece of the puzzle, is actually the 'last' piece of the puzzle as far as the club's priorities.

Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Having the sixth worst defense for points against wouldnt make me think we had the personnel/strategies, I would have thought your defense probably needs to be in the top four best to win a premiership?


Couple of points with regard to how we finished up with the 'points against.' and our ranking.

It's probably a no brainer that you need a strong defence to win a flag.
Our issue isn't so much that we lack a second key defender but that the majority of our defenders are attacking defenders rather than 'lock down' defenders.
Saad, McGovern, Newman and Boyd all take the game on.
Newman in particular is a high possession winner.

That can be a potent weapon but it depends on things like the transition from the backline and if that is breaking down in the midfield or up forward, we suffer on the rebound.

And that's where injuries play a big part.

Saad and McGovern struggled with niggly injuries for much of the season, continuing to play on some occasions. Weitering copped a couple of corkies that limited him.
Durdin and Fogarty are two who apply good pressure in the forward line.
So with them affected by injury and Charlie's ability to chase and provide second efforts due to his problems the ball tended to not stay forward as much as if those players were up and about.

That also applied to injuries and pressure in the midfield which meant balls coming out came back pretty quickly.

In most of our losses this year it wasn't the lack of a second KPD.
Not many of our losses were the result of two big forwards getting hold of us.
More damage was done by opposition midfielders and small forwards.

Defence is a whole team thing, not just the half dozen in the backline.

Re: How will we line up in 2025.

Reply #164 –
Quote from: northernblue – on
I don’t believe we can have a proper backup up for Weitering, no Rolls Royce is going to sit in the magoos until Weiters goes down.
A backup will be someone with a bit of size who can play a role, hopefully…

The concept of back up players is bogus.  As you say, a player capable of performing Weitering's role wouldn't be cooling his heels in the VFL.  Furthermore, AFL list sizes, injuries and development or project players mean that it's simply not possible to have back ups for the "best 22".

Rather than a back up player, we will have strategies in place to cover the absence of key players.  For example, if player A is suspended, we bring in player B from the VFL.  Player B takes on player C's role and player C takes on player A's role.  Players D and E have their roles tweaked to assist player C.  Player F will also spend time in player C's role.

I remember hearing a Hawthorn player explaining during their premiership domination that every player in the 22 could move seamlessly into at least three other player's roles.  If Hodge had to go off, someone else would immediately take his role until such time as Clarko made a more permanent positional change.  We would have to have similar contingencies both for game day scenarios and at the selection table and they may even include Harry McKay to CHB  :)
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!